Forums - The Tales of Light and Dark: The SNK Storylines (Q & A thread) Show all 268 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Fan Fiction Library (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=17) -- The Tales of Light and Dark: The SNK Storylines (Q & A thread) (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=55379) Posted by Lantis on 02:22:2002 04:02 PM: The Tales of Light and Dark: The SNK Storylines (Q & A thread) Not to be outdone by the threads regarding Street Fighter and Darkstalkers, here is MY thread concerning everything known about SNK fighting games in general (I know this topic will be more geared towards The King of Fighters, but we can also deal with Fatal Fury, Art of Fighting, Samurai Shodown, and Last Blade if you want). Satisfy your story quelms right here! Just some pointers though: 1) I know there's a lot of bad wind towards SNK in general on these forums. Please don't post SNK hate topics as we don't need them here. Of course, this is not to encourage Capcom flaming either. Questions will be questions, and we shall leave it at that. 2) NO fanboy or biased posts, please. "X character beats everyone else!" will not be tolerated, unless you are of open mind. Topics like this will be promptly ignored (at least by me). So then...what's up? The class is in session! Posted by Apprentice on 02:22:2002 04:10 PM: Okay, here's a question: when did AoF1/2 take place in relation to KoF? AoF2 suggests that it takes place long before Fatal Fury 1, especially with the presence of Liquid Sna-- uh, I mean young Geese. But Ryo, Robert, Takuma, Yuri, and King haven't aged at all by KoF'94. How does SNK explain this? -Paul Posted by D-Force on 02:22:2002 04:16 PM: My question is, what is the real timeline of the SNK games in general? Posted by Lantis on 02:22:2002 04:28 PM: Thanks for showing up, Apprentice! OK, I've also got a lot of mails regarding the whole hoopla about Geese's appearance in AOF 2, his involvement in the AOF storyline, and those mysterious final words he gives while he takes his plane to Japan, where he explains that he will kill Jeff Bogard. Allow me to explain some little inconsistencies that I THINK SNK of America did with the game's story... By the time AOF 2 was released, SNK saw it fit to actually mix both the universes of AOF and FF, their two most popular series at the time (prior to Samurai Shodown's release, of course). This was a set-up to what would later be the King of Fighters, but at the time, it was just means for fanservice. With that in mind, SNK put Ryo Sakazaki as a secret opponent you could face in Fatal Fury Special after meeting certain requirements (not losing a round, although this rule could be played with: if you lost a round, throw in the fight, then continue. Then challenge the CPU again, and win the fight without losing rounds. You can continue as much as you want, you just have to win the fight without losing rounds. In the particular case of FFS, this task was made even easier because another player could challenge you with a character, get defeated, and then that character would be eliminated from your CPU lineup. This does not apply to the bosses, though). AOF 2 has the same requirements in order to fight Geese Howard (although doing THAT in a game with such high difficulty as AOF 2 was really hard). But FFS was a "dream match", and AOF 2 was not. First mistake. Secondly, who would believe AOF 2 takes place at least 10 years before Fatal Fury 1? Judging by the official bios released by SNK in their official magazine, Neo Geo Freak, the AOF and FF characters were born around the same time (early-mid 70's), which completely discards that fact. My guess is that the game was poorly translated. Look at the pre-fight dialogue concerning Mr. Big and Robert Garcia in AOF 2: Mr. Big calls Robert an 'Italian', but Robert says he is a 'Spainard', and that he hates people who mess up his nationality (which has chained another discussion, but this fact was thrown away since in the official bios Robert is stated to be, indeed, from ITALY not SPAIN). So, essentially, the whole "I'm gonna kill Jeff Bogard" talk was just a crazy fact made up by the translators who never thought KOF would be in their plans. So, Geese DOES have to do with the AOF story, but the whole Jeff Bogard thing must be discarded completely. Either it was a translation magazine, or a lack of forward planning by the SNK staff. It's your pick, but as you can see, the AOF characters don't seem to be concerned with Geese as much as the Lone Wolves do. Besides, Geese bears a more striking resemblance to Andy than Liquid Snake...even though Geese takes a clue from Liquid, and just won't stay dead... Posted by Lantis on 02:22:2002 04:34 PM: Easy one, D-Force! Here's how it goes: Samurai Shodown (SS 1 takes place in 1788, and the last SS, Samurai Shodown: Warriors' Rage for the Playstation, took place in 1810) -> Last Blade (takes place in the mid 19th century, I believe) -> fast forward to Art of Fighting (which in my belief takes place some time before FF, judging by how Geese could change his appearance from his younger AOF self to his more seasoned FF version, although not by so many years as one might think, maybe 2 or 3) -> Fatal Fury (up to Real Bout: Fatal Fury) -> King of Fighters (current) -> Garou: Mark of the Wolves (year 2008) Posted by D-Force on 02:22:2002 08:07 PM: Could SNK of America have messed up the backstories of their characters like how Capcom of America messed up the backstories of their characters? It sure does sound like it. Posted by Sho 2 on 02:22:2002 11:08 PM: Hello again, Lantis. I was wondering can you give me background on the Nests organization and their members (Kula, K', K9999, Maxima, Fake Zero, True Zero, Krizalid, and others). I don't imagine there would be much. Also, can you illustrate the point of why there are (were) 8 Orochi people (and the "original" Orochi had 8 heads) and only 4 Orochi Gods. I would think that Leona, Yamazaki, Vice, and Mature/Iori/Rugal would be an Orochi God too (like in South's amazingly written story). I ask this because I remember some dialouge somewhere (ahh, yes these details help you a lot ), where someone told Leona that her element(al) was water. SO, from my point of view there should be 8 Orochi Gods like this: Iori: Orochi God of Fire Goentiz: Orochi God of Wind Shermie: Orochi God(dess) of Thunder Yashiro: Orochi God of Earth Chris: Orochi God of Fire and Vessel/Physical Body of Orochi Leona: Orochi God(dess) of Water Vice: Orochi God(dess) of Darkness Mature: Orochi God(dess) of Light Yamazaki: Orochi God of ???? (Maybe Ice) Posted by Dark LordDragon on 02:23:2002 01:15 AM: SNK storyline: Samurai Shodown 1 Samurai Shodown 3 Samurai Shodown 4 Samurai Shodown 2 | | | V Last Blade Last Blade 2 (Zanetsu -> Eiji) | | | | | | V Art of Fighting Art of Fighting 2 Fatal Fury ('91) Fatal Fury 2 ('92) King of Fighters '94 Fatal Fury 3* King of Fighters '95 King of Fighters '96 King of Fighters '97 King Of Fighters Neo Blood Ex Real Bout Fatal Fury! King of Fighters '99 King of Fighters '00 King of Fighters '01 | V Fatal Fury: Mark of the Wolves ('08) | | | V Kizuna Encounter# Posted by Dark LordDragon on 02:23:2002 01:19 AM: Hey Lantis, I have a question... Did Leona killed Gadiel (Leona's father) or he just killed himself!? Posted by Siegfried on 02:23:2002 02:11 AM: I still think AoF took place in the 70's and SNK just changed that to be able to mix the characters together in KoF. It is stated in All About SNK that Geese was 25 in AoF2, and he's born 1953. The first Fatal Fury age for him is 40 in Fatal Fury Special. Then again, even Fatal Fury is a year late compared to KoF. And after KoF'96 or so it seems like they're not even counting anymore - Athena, Kyo and Kensou are still the same age. Posted by Bowling Pin on 02:23:2002 02:56 AM: quote: Originally posted by Siegfried And after KoF'96 or so it seems like they're not even counting anymore - Athena, Kyo and Kensou are still the same age. Well, I guess a decent explanation is that the Psycho Soldiers had not yet had their birthdays yet by the time KoF '96 started. Posted by Lantis on 02:23:2002 05:14 AM: OK, on with the next questions: D-Force: I sincerely think it was just a lack of planning by the SNK programmers. They never thought a KOF game would be at hand that would involve both the FF and AOF universes. Whatever it is, it also does seem like AOF 3 takes place before KOF '96: this is where Robert changes his outfit, and then brings it over to KOF '96. Basically, once you look at it, the game that just doesn't seem to "fit" is AOF 2, but the story is still taken in consideration. In KOF '96, Mr. Big is still referred as a lackey of Geese, just as he was in AOF 2. At least they had to improvise on the ongoing...Capcom had lots of information to deal with in Street Fighter Alpha 3, and we all just get a huge mess of hijinx... Sho 2: Sure! The NESTS organization is an international crime syndicate (think Shadaloo) that plans to rule the world via complex genetic engineering and highly devastating weaponry (i.e. The Zero Cannon of KOF 2000). Still, though, it seems like the whole genetic and weaponry mumbo-jumbo bases itself on gathering fighting energy, just like the Orochi clan did to revive their master. This has allowed several theories to come up that NESTS may secretly be planning to forward the resurrection of the Orochi power in the next 10 years or so (instead of the regular 100 that it takes for Orochi to get another chance). This is clearly evident in what Zero says to Kyo in the end of KOF '99: "With your help, we plan to forward our plot for 10 years!", and there is the final screen, which shows a certain "Project: Rising" at hand. Kind of suspicious, eh? Basically, in NESTS, you are one of the two following options: either you are a renegade to the organization, or you are a high executive with a severe loyalty problem (they all seem to conspire against their leaders, except for Krizalid). First, after KOF '97 ended, NESTS captured the exhausted Kyo Kusanagi after the Orochi battle ended (but according to King of Fighters EX: Neo Blood for the Game Boy Advanced, it took them one year to be able to do that), and then took a sample of his genetic data in order to create their own army of Kyo clones, which would help them conquer the world by placing them in several points of the planet. Krizalid and K' were the more advanced clones of Kyo, instead of being just split images of Kyo like the others. K' was created first, but he was not entirely completed (hence, his name "K'", which I assume is to be the incomplete name of Krizalid or Kyo), that is why K' could not control the power of the Kusanagi flames within his body without the help of a special red glove. If K' ever removed his glove, the flames would sprout out of his hand in such a wild manner that he would not control it (as shown in the Hero Team's ending for KOF '99 when K' decimates the Ikari reconissance squad). It seems like he is able to control it after KOF 2000 ends (in the Hero Team's ending for KOF 2000, K' takes off his glove, and does not seem to go wild), but he seems to have get used to the glove since he still wears it in KOF 2001 (kind of like a bad habit to kill). Krizalid is the most advanced Kyo clone. Krizalid was created from the data that was used for K', refined, and ended up creating a huge monster. Krizalid could use the Kusanagi flames at will, and even used a special body suit to absorb fighting data. The fighting data he collected in his suit would then be used to activate the Kyo clones around the world, and send them into attack. But there was a little problem: not only was Krizalid gifted with Kusanagi power thanks to the research of K', but K's memories were implanted along with the power, so that's why Krizalid thinks Whip is his sister, when that is really K's memory, and not his. Maxima is considered to be the only close friend to K'. Maxima is an android supposedly created by some scientist called "Dr. Makishima", who was killed by NESTS, and to whom Maxima swore revenge. K9999 is just another biological weapon created by NESTS using the saved Kusanagi data, but unlike K' and Krizalid (who were actually normal human beings who were injected with Kusanagi DNA), K9999 is all artificial. He's a lab product. That's also why he mutates so badly whenever he performs some of his DMs (like it all is with K9999, think Tetsuo from "Akira"). He supposedly hates K' with a passion, and hates being ordered around by his superiors. I think both he and Angel want out of NESTS at the end of KOF 2001, but I just think they took advantage of the situation, since NESTS pretty much died in the end of KOF 2001. Kula was created specifically to be the "anti-K'", after what happened in KOF '99. Once again, they took the data from Kyo's DNA, but tampered with it so that it would now be ice and not flames that could be wielded by Kula. To avoid any possible treason by Kula (like what happened with K'), NESTS sent two of their higher executives, Foxy and Diana, as well as a monitor cyborg, Candy, to look over Kula. Strangely enough, Kula develops quite a friendship with all 3 of them, and begins to hate NESTS more and more after the death of two of them (Candy sacrifices itself to save Kula from being burned while entering the atmosphere, after Kula destroys the Zero Cannon while in outer space. How she got there, and how could she stand up there with no oxygen is beyond me. This happened at the end of KOF 2000, as stated in Kula's ending. In KOF 2001, Foxy is killed by K9999 in an attempt to eliminate any possible opposition to NESTS. It seems like NESTS doesn't even trust their own agents, either). True Zero (the mid-boss from KOF 2001) actually created a copy of himself, which we see in KOF 2000. The clone of Zero was supposed to activate the Zero Cannon with the help of the fighting data collected from the tournament, and to use the Ikari Warriors agency as a means to do that. But Zero's clone had its' own plans. It created ANOTHER clone of itself, which we see as Ling (Heidern's assistant in KOF 2000), and directed the winning team straight to a trap, which was Zero's base. There, they would deliver the final fighting data that would activate the 20 Zero Cannon units in outer space. He planned to use the Zero Cannon himself to blow NESTS away! But after Zero was defeated, Foxy and Diana appeared to dipose of the traitor, by having Kula fire the Zero Cannon manually from outer space atop Zero's base, not only disposing of Zero, but also taking Southtown (where the base was located) along with it. Why do I say this? Because True Zero, in his dialogue with the Ikari Team in KOF 2001, thanks Heidern for taking care of his CLONES (which means, more than one). Actually, there are 8 members of the Orochi clan, one representing each head of the Orochi dragon of ancient yore. Four of them are Heavenly Kings, the most powerful of the 8. Even if they enter the "Riot of the Blood" (process in which the Orochi power inside their blood awakens), they do not become berserk or mindless killing machines, and they get in full control of their power. This is where we have Goenitz (Wind), Yashiro Nanakase (Earth), Shermie (Water), and Chris (Fire, and the host body for the Orochi). The other 4 are not as powerful, but also share the same evil power. They are Leona, Mature, Vice, and Ryuji Yamazaki. They all run the risk of losing their sanity whenever they enter the "Riot of the Blood" process, because they are unable to fully control their power. Leona is a half breed (daughter of a reformed Orochi clan member, Guidel, and a normal mother), so her human blood and Orochi blood clash with each other, thus producing the reaction we see when she enters the "Riot of the Blood". Vice can also seem to enter the same syndromes (coughing up blood), as seen in KOF '98 (which is by no means a part of the storyline, but does give some inside tidbits on some character's charateristics). Yamazaki is, well...Yamazaki (he is already too psychotic as it is). Mature doesn't seem to suffer from anything, though. There isn't any dialogue which says that Leona has to do with the "water" element in any KOF game as far as I know... Dark Lord Dragon: Yes, Leona killed her entire family when Goenitz activated the Orochi blood within her when Guidel refused to cooperate with Goenitz. Having entered the "Riot of the Blood", the young Leona goes on a killing spree, which also takes the life of her father, Guidel. Posted by Ultima on 02:23:2002 05:15 AM: quote: Originally posted by Siegfried I still think AoF took place in the 70's and SNK just changed that to be able to mix the characters together in KoF. It is stated in All About SNK that Geese was 25 in AoF2, and he's born 1953. The first Fatal Fury age for him is 40 in Fatal Fury Special. I just think there are two storylines now - The "FF/KoF" one, and the AoF one. Prior to KoF, AoF did take place 10 years before FF1 (regardless of Takuma's involvement with Jeff Bogard's murder). In the AoF storyline, I think this is still true, with Bukriki One (the "latest" AoF game) and Fatal Fury: Wild Ambition (a remake of FF1 with some different characters) both had an older Ryo, whse birthdate is more reflective of AoF taking place originally in the late 70s or whenever. After KoF came out, SNK updated the AoF characters to fit that story and added them to the FF/KoF mix, and changed the timeline to suit. This is now the "main" timeline since KoF is now SNK's flagship series (before it was FF proper, though now FF almost seems like a side-story to KoF). This is the default timeline used for all new KoF and FF games. The other storyline (where AoF takes places 10 years befoe FF) is relegated to the AoF games only, which is okay since they aren't making any more AoF games (?) and no one gives a shit about AoF. Posted by Dark LordDragon on 02:24:2002 11:36 AM: I have another question... Who is Terry's real father ? I know that Jeff just took them, anything about Terry's real father... Posted by FistsofFury on 02:25:2002 12:51 AM: Finally! An SNK thread! I myself claim to know about the SNK storyline..so I'm here to answer questions too.....but I have a question myself. Did SNK change the dates?? Last time I checked Kyo's birthdate was December 12, 1976, making him about 25 now.....but last time I checked the 2001/2000 stats...he was 23! Posted by Neo_Rasa on 02:25:2002 07:02 AM: Well here's the overall order as far as I can tell: 1788~ Samurai Shodown 1789~ Samurai Shodown III: Blades of Blood Samurai Shodown 64/Samurai Shodown 64 II: Warriors' Rage 1780~ Samurai Shodown IV: Amakusa's Revenge 1810~ Samurai Shodown: Warrior's Rage 1812~ Samurai Shodown II 1863~ The Last Blade 1864~ The Last Blade 2 1981~ Art of Fighting 1982~ Art of Fighting 2 1991~ Fatal Fury: King of Fighters 1992~'93~ Fatal Fury 2/Special 1994~ The King of Fighters '94 Fatal Fury 3: Road to the Final Victory 1995~ The King of Fighters '95 1996~ Path of the Warrior: Art of Fighting 3 The King of Fighters '96 1997~ The King of Fighters '97 1998~ The King of Fighters: EX Neo Blood Real Bout Fatal Fury 1999~ The King of Fighters '99: Millenium Battle 2000~ The King of Fighters '00 2001~ The King of Fighters '00 2008~ Garou: Mark of the Wolves 20XX~ Savage Reign/Kizuna Encounter: Super Tag Battle (?) Posted by Dark LordDragon on 02:25:2002 08:19 AM: Thanks dude for the informations... One more question, what is Amakusa's real gender, male or female!? Posted by TiamatRoar on 02:25:2002 07:52 PM: Amakusa's male. Wow, that question's still going around? This is all that stupid anime's fault. :P Posted by Lantis on 02:25:2002 10:39 PM: Regarding the whole AOF/FF stuff, I don't really think the two series are not that separated from each other. Remember that Ryo Sakazaki is mentioned as Khushnood Butt's master in Garou, and that he was on a training trip to the mountains while the "gym buster" Yamazaki was busy trashing the Kyokugenryuu dojo...again (as shown in Khushnood's ending in Garou). We still haven't seen a physical shot of Ryo in the Garou era, though, even though he should be 35 if we follow the KOF timeline...or around 50 if we continue the AOF era. Fists of Fury: Yeah, I guess SNK has resorted to the "time freeze" treatment for their KOF characters (I saw Kao Megura's KOF '99 FAQ, and it showed Kyo as 20 years old! WTF, he's supposed to be around 26 right now! ). Kensou and Athena should be nearing their mid-20's, but they're still shown as teenagers...I guess SNK is thinking that fans might be shocked if they saw an older Kensou or Athena, kind of like a dramatic change of pace, and since these two are like young idols, it wouldn't be well seen to age them. I mean, yeah, Ryu, Ken, and even Terry got older, but you could already see that coming. Making a change from a "kid" to an "adult" and still keep the charisma is actually pretty tough... I guess that's also the reason why they will never age Sakura, Cammy, among others... Neo Rasa: Wow! Glad to see you back here, man! I have a couple of doubts with your timeline, though... First, Samurai Shodown II. Why does it take place after Samurai Shodown: Warriors' Rage? Take a look at Haohmaru...he's an old geezer with shorter, gray hair and beard in WR (even though he's only 47 at the time of SS: WR, he looks a LOT older than that), and then he gets all young again by SS 2? I don't think they invented hair dye back then (at least, not the ones you see in the supermarkets nowadays ), so I still guess SS 2 takes place after the SS 64 series, but before SS: WR...Although I'm still baffled at Hanzo's appearance in WR. I've seen official pics of him (from WR) picting him without a mask, and he looks younger than Haohmaru, when he's supposed to be at least 10 years older than him! I wonder if this guy is another different Hanzo (which I don't think so, since Haohmaru and Hanzo have a dialogue in the game where they recognize each other and talk about old times). Secondly, Fatal Fury 3. It is clearly shown in all the endings in FF 3 that the current year is *1995* (you know the pics where your character stands next to the altar where the Jins are lying on, and then it says: "XXmonth/XXday, 1995. X character has rid the world of the Jins!" or something like that. The date varied because it had to match with your character's birthday). Dark Lord Dragon: We don't know for sure who are Terry and Andy's biological father, aside from Jeff Bogard raising them. And, yeah, Amakusa is definetly male...he possess the body of Hanzo's son, Shinzo (I think, or was it Kanzo?), that the spirit itself is effeminate is another story... Posted by Neo Rasa on 02:26:2002 02:07 AM: Something interesting about the AoF/FF serieses is how well they both fit together if you remove the King of Fighters series plotline. Wow! Glad to see you back here, man! Glad to be back. I have a couple of doubts with your timeline, though... They're more than welcome. First, Samurai Shodown II. Why does it take place after Samurai Shodown: Warriors' Rage? Take a look at Haohmaru...he's an old geezer with shorter, gray hair and beard in WR (even though he's only 47 at the time of SS: WR, he looks a LOT older than that), and then he gets all young again by SS 2? I don't think they invented hair dye back then (at least, not the ones you see in the supermarkets nowadays ), so I still guess SS 2 takes place after the SS 64 series, but before SS: WR...Although I'm still baffled at Hanzo's appearance in WR. I've seen official pics of him (from WR) picting him without a mask, and he looks younger than Haohmaru, when he's supposed to be at least 10 years older than him! I wonder if this guy is another different Hanzo (which I don't think so, since Haohmaru and Hanzo have a dialogue in the game where they recognize each other and talk about old times). Well there's a major corner here SNK painted themselves into. Just looking at the storylines, what you said makes perfect sense: That SS2 takes place after SS64I/II but right before WR. I was a complete believer in this as well. BUT, after looking at faqs, etc. for the game's storylines, it unfortunately seems like WR is supposed to take place in 1810. This is stupid because SSII is the one where several characters die, so WR is the ideal game to be after it. Things like the sprite discrepincies, though, I don't put much creedance in because, again, once a character is established and popular he/she will be frozen in time for quite a while. That's why most characters retained the same look throughout the SS series even though they take place at many different times. I mean storyline-wise Haohmaru SHOULD be as old, etc. as he is WR in SSII. Also, to further damn this they clearly state in the WR documentation that it's after Amakusa, Mizuki, and Zankuro are long gone. Secondly, Fatal Fury 3. It is clearly shown in all the endings in FF 3 that the current year is *1995* This was a typo, I mean to place it in 1995 right before KoF'95. ^_^;; Dark Lord Dragon: We don't know for sure who are Terry and Andy's biological father, aside from Jeff Bogard raising them. It's ironic, they were actually going to have a plot twist where Andy Bogard would turn out to have actually been Geese Howard's son (and not really Terry Bogard's brother) but they never went through with it. I think it would have been really cool given the more badassed image, background, and music he receives in Fatal Fury 3. Oh also I think we can safely place 3 Count Bout in 1993 without interrupting any of the other plots. SNK Wrestling League is still around in Savage Reign so you can't have one without the other! Besides, honestly, we all KNOW Terry Rogers was really just Terry Bogard trying to make some fast cash inbetween KoF's. Posted by Neo Rasa on 02:26:2002 02:24 AM: Now, for the sake of it, here's an expanded list. 1788~ Samurai Shodown 1789~ Samurai Shodown III: Blades of Blood Samurai Shodown 64/Samurai Shodown 64 II: Warriors' Rage 1780~ Samurai Shodown IV: Amakusa's Revenge 1810~12 Samurai Shodown II Samurai Shodown: Warrior's Rage 1863~ The Last Blade 1864~ The Last Blade 2 1939~ Prehistoric Isle in 1930's Sky Adventure (?) 1945~ Iron Tank: The Invasion of Normandy/TNK III 1975~ NAM'75 P.O.W.: Prisoners of War 1981~ Art of Fighting 1982~ Art of Fighting 2 1986~ Ikari Warriors Victory Road 1987~ Psycho Soldiers 1989~ Ikari III: The Rescue 1991~ Fatal Fury: King of Fighters 1992~'93~ Fatal Fury 2/Special 3 Count Bout 1994~ The King of Fighters '94 Fatal Fury 3: Road to the Final Victory 1995~ The King of Fighters '95 1996~ Path of the Warrior: Art of Fighting 3 The King of Fighters '96 1997~ The King of Fighters '97 1998~ The King of Fighters: EX Neo Blood Real Bout Fatal Fury 1999~ The King of Fighters '99: Millenium Battle 2000~ The King of Fighters '00 2001~ The King of Fighters '00 2008~ Garou: Mark of the Wolves 2022~ Metal Slug Metal Slug: First Mission 2023~ Metal Slug 2/X 2024~ Metal Slug: Second Mission Metal Slug 3 20XX~ Savage Reign/Kizuna Encounter: Super Tag Battle (?) *** I'm unsure if those are the exact years from Metal Slug. After SNK's demise the Metal Slug Project site was taken down which had all of its storyline information. After looking into it it's very nice that so many of the games storylines HAVE years, though it's a pain in the ass to get them if you don't have the arcade pcb manual. Pulstar and Blazing Star also have specific dates but said dates are in the process of eluding me. The same goes for Last Resort and most of SNK's other games. Posted by Neo Rasa on 02:26:2002 02:35 AM: Now, for the sake of it, here's an expanded list. 1788~ Samurai Shodown 1789~ Samurai Shodown III: Blades of Blood Samurai Shodown 64/Samurai Shodown 64 II: Warriors' Rage 1780~ Samurai Shodown IV: Amakusa's Revenge 1810~12 Samurai Shodown II Samurai Shodown: Warrior's Rage 1863~ The Last Blade 1864~ The Last Blade 2 1939~ Prehistoric Isle in 1930's Sky Adventure (?) 1944~ Ghost Pilots Iron Tank: The Invasion of Normandy/TNK III 1975~ Chopper I P.O.W.: Prisoners of War NAM'75 1981~ Art of Fighting 1982~ Art of Fighting 2 1986~ Ikari Warriors Victory Road 1987~ Psycho Soldiers 1989~ Ikari III: The Rescue 1991~ Fatal Fury: King of Fighters 1992~'93~ Fatal Fury 2/Special 3 Count Bout 1994~ The King of Fighters '94 1995~ Fatal Fury 3: Road to the Final Victory The King of Fighters '95 1996~ Path of the Warrior: Art of Fighting 3 The King of Fighters '96 1997~ The King of Fighters '97 1998~ The King of Fighters: EX Neo Blood Real Bout Fatal Fury 1999~ The King of Fighters '99: Millenium Battle 2000~ The King of Fighters '00 2001~ The King of Fighters '01 2008~ Garou: Mark of the Wolves 2022~ Metal Slug Metal Slug: First Mission 2023~ Metal Slug 2/X 2024~ Metal Slug: Second Mission Metal Slug 3 20XX~ Savage Reign/Kizuna Encounter: Super Tag Battle (?) *** I'm unsure if those are the exact years from Metal Slug. After SNK's demise the Metal Slug Project site was taken down which had all of its storyline information. After looking into it it's very nice that so many of the games storylines HAVE years, though it's a pain in the ass to get them if you don't have the arcade pcb manual. Pulstar and Blazing Star also have specific dates but said dates are in the process of eluding me. The same goes for Last Resort and most of SNK's other games. Sky Soldiers and Time Soldiers both take place in many different time periods but I believe they're starting year is 2065. I will try to beat Sky Soldiers tonight and see. Posted by Overkill Geyser on 02:26:2002 02:44 AM: Oooh! An SNK thread to sink my teeth into! As far as the whole "Fatal Fury/Art of Fighting" storyline goes, I'm a believer in the "AOF takes place 10 years prior" theory. But, it IS true; after ANYONE enters KOF, their age freezes. Terry's been about 23 for about 7 years now! A really good resource that I found is a site called "Galactica Phantom". I think the site's http://galactica-phantom.hypermart.net/frames.html or something like that; I'll re-check the address if this one's not right when I get home (i'm in school right now). By the way, Dark Lord Dragon, are you the same one from Neo-Geo.com? Posted by Siegfried on 02:26:2002 01:19 PM: Here's my take on the SNK and Capcom dates: Samurai Shodown 1788 Stated in game (on the world map) Samurai Shodown 3 1788 Characters are the same age as in SS1 (I don't know the exact order of 2, 3 and 4) Samurai Shodown 4 1789 Stated in game (intro speech). Zankuro is defeated here. Samurai Shodown 2 1789? Characters have aged since SS1 (Nakoruru turns into a spirit after this game) Samurai Shodown 64 1790 Said to be a year after the defeat of Zankuro (SS4). Yuga is defeated here. (Nakoruru is still human... strange) SS: Warrior's Rage 2 1810 Said to be 20 years after the defeat of Yuga (SS64) (Nakoruru is a spirit and Haohmaru is older. Go figure.) Last Blade 1863 Everyone is a year younger than in LB2 Last Blade 2 1864 Stated in game (intro) Art of Fighting 2 1979 Geese (born 1953) appears in the game, 26 years old Note: Was moved to 1993 to allow the characters in KoF Darkstalkers/Nightwarriors 1983? Demitri is said to awaken after 500 years; born 1483) Pyron is "born" 1991, so the game might be set in 1993 instead (Jeff killed by Geese) 1983 Terry was 12 when it happened (Chizuru's sister killed by Goenitz) 1986 Ten years before KoF'96 Street Fighter 1987 The year the game was released Street Fighter Alpha 2 1988 Info from All About Capcom SFA2 replaces SFA1 Street Fighter Alpha 3 1990 Info from All About Capcom Fatal Fury 1992 A year before Fatal Fury 2 Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo 1993 Cammy is 19 years old, and was born 1974 Fatal Fury 2 1993 Late March, based on birth dates of various fighters Fatal Fury 2 Special 1993 After April the same year, again based on birth dates Might not have happened at all King of Fighters '94 1994 Fatal Fury 3 1995 Somewhere in March, based on birth dates King of Fighters '95 1995 King of Fighters '96 1996 Real Bout 1996 Fits between Fatal Fury 3 and RBS. Geese dies after this game. Real Bout Special 1997 Early 1997, based on birth dates (Geese is a ghost version) King of Fighters '97 1997 Geese is alive, but most FF characters are a year younger in KoF, so for him it's 1996 and RB hasn't happened yet. Street Fighter 3 1998 Takes place 5 years later, Akuma's ending states 199X Forgot the source of "5 years" Real Bout 2 1998 Based on birth dates Buriki One 1999 Based on birth dates King of Fighters '99 1999 Note: King of Fighters '98 never happened. Neo Blood is a dream match (or a mistake) since Geese was dead by then. King of Fighters 2000 2000 King of Fighters 2001 2001 Garou: Mark of the Wolves 2006 Calculated through Terry's birth date Posted by Lantis on 02:26:2002 04:28 PM: Originally posted by Neo Rasa Well there's a major corner here SNK painted themselves into. Just looking at the storylines, what you said makes perfect sense: That SS2 takes place after SS64I/II but right before WR. I was a complete believer in this as well. BUT, after looking at faqs, etc. for the game's storylines, it unfortunately seems like WR is supposed to take place in 1810. This is stupid because SSII is the one where several characters die, so WR is the ideal game to be after it. Things like the sprite discrepincies, though, I don't put much creedance in because, again, once a character is established and popular he/she will be frozen in time for quite a while. That's why most characters retained the same look throughout the SS series even though they take place at many different times. I mean storyline-wise Haohmaru SHOULD be as old, etc. as he is WR in SSII. Also, to further damn this they clearly state in the WR documentation that it's after Amakusa, Mizuki, and Zankuro are long gone. I should know...I wrote an ending FAQ for SS: WR that's currently up at GameFAQs . But really, what makes WR place before SS II? As I see it, Ukyo is still nowhere to be seen (maybe still dead), and Nakoruru is just a wandering spirit/fairy now, not "alive", per say. Rimururu is still young because she was encased in ice by the main bad guy of WR, the old coot Oboro, as a way of getting rid of the Maidens of Light which didn't allow him to gain control of the world (literally, Rimururu did "age freeze" ). So, the dead guys are still dead, and there's really nothing that would make it seem otherwise. Although I've been a bit baffled by Haohmaru's age, since he's supposed to be 21 in SS 1 (1788), 2 years later he should be 23 (time of SS II/64 series, like Siegfried stated, SS: WR takes place 20 years after the fall of Yuga, the bad dude of the SS 64 series), and 20 years after that, he should be 43, NOT 47. Again, another age mixup... This was a typo, I mean to place it in 1995 right before KoF'95. ^_^;; Well, it seems you still didn't got that until the fourth time you posted your updated timelines... It's ironic, they were actually going to have a plot twist where Andy Bogard would turn out to have actually been Geese Howard's son (and not really Terry Bogard's brother) but they never went through with it. I think it would have been really cool given the more badassed image, background, and music he receives in Fatal Fury 3. Yeah, and that would add a new twist to the eternal "sibling rivalry" that Terry and Andy have always had, to a whole new level (especially for Andy, who would have been torn apart by the fact that he wanted to take revenge on his own father for the death of his adoptive father! That would have been the greatest plot twist in a fighting game EVER! ). Too bad it didn't get through. Oh well, Rock's story is just as good and dramatic, so no worries there! Siegfried: Do you consider Real Bout: Fatal Fury Special and Real Bout 2: The Newcomers to be part of the official timeline? In my opinion, everything after Real Bout: Fatal Fury are just "dream matches", including the Dominated Mind game for the Playstation (all due to the "ghost of Geese" factor). Well, I guess that's what doesn't matter. As for Geese's age, well, SNK didn't get it right with Haohmaru in the SS series, so why shouldn't we suppose they did the same with Geese? As for what happened in 1998, KOF EX: Neo Blood is supposed to be what really happens that year, KOF-wise. I mean, I've seen official storylines posted for the game (the official prologues of every team), so it just might be true. Besides, why would SNK make 2 KOF dream matches in the same year? Why didn't they just smack the KOF '99 history in KOF EX? So, by that statement, Geese dies in RBFF in 1998 (considering he's still alive in KOF EX) and 10 years later we have Garou (once again, I think they screwed with Terry's age as well). Besides, how could Geese die in 1996 and appear again in KOF '97, working behind the sidelines? I don't think ghosts are that active... Posted by Neo Rasa on 02:26:2002 07:19 PM: Siegfried: I think you may not want to base your timeline on the characters' ages due to the age freezing, altering, etc. that is commonplace in most all of the serieses in question. Lantis what would you say then about SSII/SSWR, I'm not sure if I should: A) Go by the stated years the games take place in or B) Go by the storylines Well, it seems you still didn't got that until the fourth time you posted your updated timelines... It's this stupid board! I had to refresh/repost/edit like 9228742972953520572057105339 times cause the thing would keep timing out! ARG! Also, remember Real Bout Fatal Fury Special is a remake of Fatal Fury Special, not an actual game. Real Bout Fatal Fury 2: The Newcomers is a sequal to Real Bout Fatal Fury, so it might have happened. It actually kind of works if you ignore the presense of Geese Howard in the game, like how Fatal Fury: Wild Ambition is an interesting remake of Fatal Fury: King of Fighters and is actually very accurate if you remove Ryuji Yamazaki. Also Lantis is right about KoF EX, it takes place inbetween KoF'97 and RBFF. Posted by FistsofFury on 02:26:2002 08:36 PM: Another question: What time to the KOF tournaments take place? What month during the year?? How long does it last?? Posted by Siegfried on 02:27:2002 03:17 PM: >Siegfried: Do you consider Real Bout: Fatal Fury Special and Real Bout 2: The Newcomers to be part of the official timeline? In my opinion, everything after Real Bout: Fatal Fury are just "dream matches", including the Dominated Mind game for the Playstation (all due to the "ghost of Geese" factor). Well, I guess that's what doesn't matter. As for Geese's age, well, SNK didn't get it right with Haohmaru in the SS series, so why shouldn't we suppose they did the same with Geese? I've never thought of RBFFS as a remake of FFS, and it doesn't really make sense with all the FF3/RB characters in it. I think it's a short after-story that cleans up what's left after Real Bout. Billy receives instructions from Geese (or his "ghost") on how to run the show from then on. All participating characters have official ages in that game, Terry is 25 and born 1971. He's 24 in KoF'95 (and actually one of the few FF characters who has the same age in KoF). Dammit, this is too complex... Real Bout 2 should have happened - it introduced Xiangfei and Rick Strowd (although he never showed up anywhere else). Oh, and Alfred started in one of those games too. >As for what happened in 1998, KOF EX: Neo Blood is supposed to be what really happens that year, KOF-wise. I mean, I've seen official storylines posted for the game (the official prologues of every team), so it just might be true. Besides, why would SNK make 2 KOF dream matches in the same year? Why didn't they just smack the KOF '99 history in KOF EX? So, by that statement, Geese dies in RBFF in 1998 (considering he's still alive in KOF EX) and 10 years later we have Garou (once again, I think they screwed with Terry's age as well). Besides, how could Geese die in 1996 and appear again in KOF '97, working behind the sidelines? I don't think ghosts are that active... As I said, Geese is a year younger in KoF for some reason. So he died somewhere right after KoF'97. Or maybe the FF and KoF teams maybe did a mistake. Anyway, Terry is 35 in Garou so it should be in 2006. Again, all numbers are from All About SNK. Posted by Clay on 02:27:2002 09:39 PM: quote: Originally posted by Neo_Rasa It's this stupid board! I had to refresh/repost/edit like 9228742972953520572057105339 times cause the thing would keep timing out! A pain I know all to well, I feel ya' on that one. Sieg: It seems to be much more reliable to ignore character ages and use tourney dates instead. SNK seems to have screwed with everybody's age it doesn't make any sense. -Clay Posted by Neo Rasa on 02:27:2002 09:51 PM: You're right Clay, like I was saying think of it like how comic book characters' ages change pretty much whenever they want to do anything different with them. Lots of fictional character ages change as much as the length of the ears on Batman's cowl did in the late eighties. Posted by Lantis on 02:27:2002 11:00 PM: Neo Rasa: Actually, if you go by both the storylines AND the years of the SS series, I think it'll be just the same. The way I see it, it should go like this: *End of Samurai Shodown II. Haohmaru returns to Oshizu (but probably doesn't stay with her for long, as Haohmaru returns to his wandering ways, as seen in WR), Nakoruru/Ukyo/Earthquake(?) die. Hanzo's wife dies, but his sons survive. Galford and Charlotte are heart broken. Gen-an, Kyoshiro, and Sieger lead happy lifes with their women. The rest return to their normal life. *In 1810, Haohmaru attends to Riten-Kyo guided by the spirit of Nakoruru (who is now shown as a pint-sized fairy). Riten Kyo is a prison island where lots of criminals and gangs wander around. The main beef of these evildoers are the Razor Trio. One of them is Tohma, Sesihiro's brother (Seishiro seems to be aiming to be the new main guy in the SS series, but then again, they tried to do the same with Shizumaru, and that didn't turn out right), who slained his father and took his sword with him. The other is Mikoto, the daughter of Asra and Shiki (both from the SS 64 series), who seems to occasionally suffer a Leona-like syndrome, being possessed by the spirit of Yuga (former SS 64 bad guy) from time to time. Mikoto was picked up by Haohmaru, and then the samurai left her at a monastery to be raised. The third guy is the main evil, a giddly old man called Oboro, who is really some blood thirsty demon who wields a pair of WICKED swords. Oboro seems to have slaughtered some of Hanzo's ninjas a while back. In Haohmaru's ending, Haohmaru talks to himself about Genjuro and the way of the sword. That should also mean that Genjuro must still be alive somewhat. As for RB 2, my main problem with is that it doesn't seem to have ANY sort of story or official backdrop. Nobody seems to host it, nobody knows why the tournament is hosted, and the endings all turn out to be comic reliefs (I pretty much laugh my ass of with Krauser's ) or "what if" possibilities (for example, take Geese's ending. He vanishes, leaving the scrolls behind. That should offer an answer to the question "What if Geese used the scrolls?". Also, in the endings for the Jins, the twins are either taken in by Kim, or Chonrei goes with Tung. Again, it's all about multiple options). Fists of Fury: I think that's pretty much a subjective matter. We all know that the world can't have the SAME season all year long, and the time period of the tournament usually isn't specified (if we go by many of the worldwide competition events like the Olympics or the Soccer World Cup, I would say one or two months. But then again, that could just be me). Posted by ssj2shingohan on 02:28:2002 06:12 AM: Can some one give me some bios and facts about some character. Also,which endings in kof99 happined? Posted by TiamatRoar on 02:28:2002 08:04 AM: I thought Geese vanished leaving his will behind, not the scrolls, since the scrolls were already destroyed. Kain said he left an indecipherable will behind in MOTW, which seems to fit with that ending for some reason. Though you'd probably have to forget about Geese himself being there and just look at it (Geese being there) as a symbollic thing or something. Not that it really matters though since yea, a large amount of Real Bout 2's endings are just pure comedy:P Posted by Darkstalker on 02:28:2002 03:09 PM: quote: Originally posted by ssj2shingohan Can some one give me some bios and facts about some character. Also,which endings in kof99 happined? Which character? And endings that happened are: Hero Team (duh), Ikari Warriors Team (in fact, I think Whip killed Krizalid), and that's about it. Fatal Fury's Team probably happened (possibly Terry and gang WERE in the sewers, just not the winners). Also, Kyo and Iori's ending probably did happen as well. That's about it. Posted by ssj2shingohan on 02:28:2002 07:49 PM: I need bios and facts about,Terry,Kyo,Iori,Ryo,Robert,Takuma, Rugal,K',Krizalid.And whats the story about in kof2001? P.S. when does neo blood come out? Posted by Overkill Geyser on 03:01:2002 04:16 AM: THE WHOLE "GEESE IS DEAD" THING: As those of you who are on Neo-Geo.com know (if you've seen my posts & replies) i'm an avid believer in Geese being a phantom. Here're my reasons: 1) Geese gets the 3 scrolls, which, when read, give the reader the "ultimate technique". 2) Geese read them, and didn't notice anything different. He told Billy to throw them away, but Billy didn't. (Check out the intro story in the Real Bout instruction manual) 3) Geese appears in Real Bout Special in a "Nightmare Match". You can tell he's dead by the ghostly vapors around his feet. 4) In one of the later games (either Real Bout 2 or Fatal Fury 1st Contact on the Neo Geo Pocket) it shows Geese sitting in his chair, with Billy behind him. Then Billy looks down, Geese is gone, and the scroll is in the chair. So, I believe Geese's essence is trapped INSIDE the scroll. As long as the scroll is around, Geese will be around. Destroy the scroll, you destroy Geese. Now, Geese's will could actally BE the scroll. I mean, being a phantom/ghost, and all, he could have re-shaped it. Hey! An interesting plot twist could be Geese, trying to posses Rock through the scrolls/will! You already see how doing the "Raging Storm" affects Rock. He'd be the most likely candidate for possession... I think that'd be tight!! Posted by Lantis on 03:01:2002 04:01 PM: Overkill Gesyer has a point there about Geese. No harder proof that "Geese is dead" is his appearance in Real Bout: Dominated Mind, where he has an angel halo over his head, although why he's portrayed as an angel when he's the baddest motherfucker in the hill is beyond me. Wasn't Kain kind of "therotically" speaking when he talked about Geese's will? I mean, Kain may just have wanted to continue Geese's legacy of crime and corruption in Southtown by taking his place as the main crime lord of Southtown (although why does Kain admire Geese when he made his sister's life miserable, I don't know). Besides, we have no proof that Kain is actually in possession of the "will", so I just think he's only catching up where Geese left. I also kind of wonder about Rock's "evil blood". I mean, Geese was indeed a ruthless bastard, but I only thought that was just his natural self, NOT something you can hand down to your heirs (like the Orochi blood or something). Which kinda makes you wonder if Geese DID plan to possess his own son before dying? That could also explain his cocky little "see you in hell" grin he flashes at Terry before falling to his inminent doom at the end of RBFF. I don't think SNK would bother explaining a "paranormal" story ala Tales from the Crypt/X-Files, but then again, if Liquid Snake could come back in Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty JUST with his arm, why won't Geese? (But, mind you, I don't want Geese to resurrect in Rock, that would lower Rock down to the level of a "Geese host body", and I think he's cool in his own right will). ssj2shingohan: Why don't you go check on GameFAQs, hm? You should try searching the "Arcade" section, then go to the KOF '99 section and look at the bottom for a story guide. Have fun! Posted by Siegfried on 03:01:2002 04:17 PM: There is a reason why Geese has a halo, and it has nothing to do with angels. In Japanese media, dead characters are shown with halos. Son Goku's grandfather in Dragon Ball (and indeed Son Goku himself now and then ^_^) are examples of this. Posted by Nakkurusu on 03:02:2002 04:33 PM: What are you opnions of endings in KOF? In KOF '94-'96 it's: Esaka Team fights boss, and everybody endings happen. But in '97 and on things change... (I'm gonna post my thoughts, and I'd like to see your reaction.) King of Fighters 1997 Teams fight Orochi Leona and Orochi. Those able, help to fight the Orochi New Faces Team with Esaka Team. Chris Becomes Orochi. Sacred Forces Team Battles Orochi. Their ending happens. Kyo and Iori battle. They both pass out (leaving Nest to pick up Kyo) The rest of the endings happen. 1998: K' is infused with Kusanagi DNA, and his clone Krizalid is made. Although Krizald is a clone Maxima and K' work under him. King of Fighters 1999 K' and Maxima 'team up with' Benimaru K' Team fights Krizald. Other teams enter build think it's just the place where the finals are taking place. Krizald is almosted defeated and Kyo does the finshing touches. Zero squashes Krizald, and Kyo demands to know what's going on while the building is crumbling. Beni and Shingo are seperated from K and Maxima. (Kyo Clones are deactivated) All the endings happen. (Pyscho Soilders alternate ending hgappens) Kyo and Iori fight. Heidern's crew goes back in to see a near dead Krizald. King of Fighters 2000 KOF 2000 happens. Seth and Vanessa disover they've been duped by NESTs. Zero-Ling captures Heidern. K' Team and Benimaru team fight Clone-Zero. Other Teams enter Southtown hoping to watch the finals. Clone-Zero, although defeated, fires the Zero Cannon, but is also paying the price of being a tratior to NESTs. Kula resets the co-ordinates of the Zero Cannon. It Fires on Zero's building. While Kula is saved by Candy. Ikari Team's Ending Happens (in order) K' Team's ending happens. Benimaru Team's ending happens Art of Fighting Team/Pyscho Soilder Team/Korea Team ending Happens Kyo looks for Zero, and Kyo and Iori fight again. Girl's team ending happens. Posted by orochi ryu on 03:02:2002 04:49 PM: 1- Who is Kyo'sgirl friend? 2- What is Yamakazi doing in KOF? 3- Who is Rock the son of? 4- in C vs Snk 2, what do Bison and Iori say to each other at the begining of a match, and why? Also when Terry and ryu Fight, they seem to not like each other either. Why? There are more, But hopefully Some one here can answer these questions first.... Thanx in advance. Posted by FistsofFury on 03:02:2002 06:39 PM: quote: Originally posted by orochi ryu 1- Who is Kyo'sgirl friend? 2- What is Yamakazi doing in KOF? 3- Who is Rock the son of? 4- in C vs Snk 2, what do Bison and Iori say to each other at the begining of a match, and why? Also when Terry and ryu Fight, they seem to not like each other either. Why? There are more, But hopefully Some one here can answer these questions first.... Thanx in advance. 1- Yuki.....I forgot her last name 2- Yamazaki was voted in KOF 97 for a special team by the Japanese public. Him and Blue Mary and Billy Kane were the top requests. 3- Rock is the child of Geese and this lady with red eyes....I forgot her name too damnit 4- Don't know......it's probably stupid. 5- I think they just look like they're both concentrating....they both are strong warriors who love to fight....so yeah You're welcome Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:02:2002 08:15 PM: 1- Yuki.....I forgot her last name Don't feel bad, it's never officially stated. If she had a last name I guess it would be Kushinada like Yuki in the Last Blade games since they're both sacrificial maidens. O_O; I'm onto something here. 3- Rock is the child of Geese and this lady with red eyes....I forgot her name too damnit Her name's Marie Heinlein, she's Kain R. Heinlein's sister. 4- Don't know......it's probably stupid. I can't remember either but it's something along the lines of Vega/M. Bison saying he wants Iori Yagami's power and Iori Yagami telling him he can't handle it/to try and take it. 5- I think they just look like they're both concentrating....they both are strong warriors who love to fight....so yeah It's the ultimate psychological battle~ Ryu: (I's the mastah! Why's I only gots three moves?! Terry's a punk foo and he's gots fifty!) Terry: (YOSH!! OKAY!!) Posted by Ultima on 03:03:2002 02:29 AM: From Neo Rasa: > > 4- Don't know......it's probably stupid. > I can't remember either but it's something along the lines of Vega/M. Bison saying he wants Iori Yagami's power and Iori Yagami telling him he can't handle it/to try and take it. Huh? Their dialogue consists of stock samples. Bison: Sono kubi... ka kiru! = "I will cut your neck!" (standard Bison intro) [Iori throws fireball while Bison leaps over] Iori: Sugu rakunishi teyaru! = "I'll end your suffering quickly!" (standard Iori intro) Translations: Taken from a CvS speech translation FAQ on Gamefaqs by The True Warrior. I think you're mixing up Bison/Iori's diologue with Bison/Rugal's. That's the one where Rugal tells Bison that he will take his power from him, though Bison's reply is one of his stock intro quotes. Posted by Lantis on 03:03:2002 04:34 AM: orochi ryu: About Yamazaki, here's how he got into the King of Fighters tournament (for officially just one year): Geese Howard was planning to enter the KOF '97 tournament, but being the cunning man that he is, he once again plans so other people will do the dirty work for him. He sends Billy Kane, his loyal bodyguard, to go recruit Ryuji Yamazaki for his team. Billy wonders why he has to deal with someone as psychotic as Yamazaki, but Geese knows what Yamazaki hungers for: money. Billy searches Yamazaki throughout Southtown, and finally finds him at a dojo (the Kyokugenryuu dojo, actually), trashing up some students for no reason at all (you know how he is, that is the reason why he is most likely to be the "gym buster" that is referred in Khushnood Butt's ending in Garou: MOTW. Yamazaki busted the Kyokugenryuu dojo AGAIN! ). Anyways, Billy offers Yamazaki double the prize money (courtesy of Geese) if he wins. Yamazaki thinks about it, and after beating the living shit out of a wounded student, he agrees (his Orochi blood seems to be rekindled). Billy wonders why Yamazaki is damn nuts, and the answer is later revealed in the tournament: Yamazaki is of Orochi blood, and Geese wanted Billy to analyze his performance in the tournament (since Geese was interested in the Orochi power, and wanted to know first hand what it could do, and what it was capable of). Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:03:2002 05:26 AM: Ultima: You're right. Lantis: When I transfer this year I'm gonna try to put Gym Buster down as my major. Posted by D-Force on 03:03:2002 11:21 AM: For that matter, how did Blue Mary get into the mix? Posted by Darkstalker on 03:03:2002 12:58 PM: D-Force: Geese used some sort of dummy agency to get Blue Mary to team up with Yamazaki and Billy in KOF using the excuse of investigating why both of them are there. Well, that's the very, very, VERY short summary. Posted by Overkill Geyser on 03:03:2002 04:45 PM: Like I said in my first post, for like, 95% of all things KOF, go to: http://galactica-phantom.hypermart.net/frames.html They've got soooo much info, it'll make your head spin. Posted by Lantis on 03:04:2002 10:46 PM: Let me give a further explanation to what Darkstalker said: Geese created a dummy agency, sponsored by his own funds, and even hired people to act as the agency's "executives" to request the services of Blue Mary to investigate on the involvement of Ryuji Yamazaki and Billy Kane in the KOF '97 tournament, In order to do this, Mary must join them and find out what they're up to first-hand. Of course, Geese just used her to help Billy find out about Yamazaki's "secret power" and the rela potential behind the Orochi. Mary finds out about the origin of the agency, and vows revenge against Geese, but then again, Geese dies one year after that. Neo Rasa: Why is it that whenever I hear the acronymn "Gym Buster", I imagine some pumped up guy who downs 5-6 Slim Jims a day? Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:05:2002 06:00 AM: Lantis: You must have seen my picture. Posted by orochi ryu on 03:05:2002 08:06 AM: Thank you guys for taking some time to post replies to the questions I asked. I am new in the whole KOF World. I friend of mine that Plays KOF Really good, got me into it, and now am tying to figure the whole Story out. Anyhoo, Thamx again. But...From where did kyo Meet his Girlfriend? Posted by Darkstalker on 03:06:2002 07:30 AM: quote: Originally posted by orochi ryu Thank you guys for taking some time to post replies to the questions I asked. I am new in the whole KOF World. I friend of mine that Plays KOF Really good, got me into it, and now am tying to figure the whole Story out. Anyhoo, Thamx again. But...From where did kyo Meet his Girlfriend? I don't think it's officially stated, but most obviously it's from school. Posted by ShinkuuR on 03:06:2002 08:50 PM: Can anyone tell me the team endings on 2001? I know that Ron and Ignis's girl escapes and something is up with Kensou and Bao and the Dragon Sprit or something, and Saishyu is going to teach Shingo, but other than that... Posted by Sho 2 on 03:07:2002 02:47 AM: Can anyone tell where the heck Galford might actually be from,since we all know that San Francisco didn't yet? I actually think he's a fourth generation Dutch born and from Japan. Any other theories? Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:07:2002 07:16 AM: Don't know if this was already answered, but why is Todo in SS2? Posted by Lantis on 03:08:2002 05:25 AM: orochi ryu: Like Darkstalker already said, Kyo must have certainly met Yuki at high school, since both almost always seem to portray their school uniforms in any game pre-KOF '97. ShinkuuR: I certainly don't know them all (I'm missing the Garou and Ikari Team endings right now), but here's what I can remember of what I saw: *Hero Team: Maxima and Lin watch over the destruction of the space station of NESTS at sea, meanwhile Whip and Diana are talking about something. Kula and K' are walking around somewhere. (Can't remind this one too well). *AOF Team: Everyone is happy that Robert is back into business again (his company went bankrupt before the tournament, so they entered to win enough funds to get it back up), but it seems that the Sakazaki family are only happy because they can continue to live off Robert's expenses. Robert just Genei Kyaku them all to the heavens. *Psycho Soldier Team: Like you said, Chin notices a rising power in Kensou's spirit, which Kensou also notices. Bao silently thinks that it's all due to the Dragon Spirit, and then his eyes begin to glow. Meanwhile, Ron and the secretary of NESTS think about the awesomeness of the power of the Dragon Spirit, and Ron thinks it will prove to be more useful to them than anything NESTS ever thought of. *Female Team: Just randomm hoola. Everyone goes out on a celebration dinner again, hoping Hinako would pay up the bill for them (since she comes from a high-class family), but then Hinako wants to know who's gonna pay the bill! Kind of like their ending in KOF '99. *Yagami Team: Vanessa, Seth, and Ramon all turn against Iori and consider him "expendable" by their superiors. Iori vows that he will strike them all down. (Uh oh, not again... ) *NESTS Team: Angel and K9999 apparently turn against NESTS, as K9999 takes control of one NESTS helicopter (which was overflying the disaster area where the NESTS space station crashed) and destroys the other. K9999 looks totally berserk (white spiky hair). *Japan Team: Kyo, Benimaru, and Daimon (with his son) all take their own paths (again), and Shingo is left behind (he gets terribly scorned by Kyo, who literally tells him to fuck off!). Shingo is abandoned and hopeless, but Saisyu arrives and promises to train him, which obviously fills Shingo with joy. *Kim Team: There is a celebration party upon the return of Kim and his gang. Jhun also assists, and gets into a fight with Kim (since Jhun questions the true role of Kim in the team's victory, and is just most of all bitter for missing out the tournament). Chang and Choi agree that the true star this tournament was May Lee. Sho 2: Yes, Galford is indeed American, it's just that SNK didn't want to alienate USA fans by putting someone visually different or out of the typical USA fighter stereotypes (blond guys with bad Engrish). It is said that Galford is based on some American guy who actually DID travel to Japan to become a famous ninja or something (minus Poppy, of course ). As a small cultural note, San Francisco was still a city of Mexico back in the SS time era (2nd most important port city of Mexico, second to Acapulco), before president Santa Anna sold a big deal of Mexico's territory to the States in the USA invasion to Mexico in the 1840's (which included California). As a matter of fact, Texas was a part of Mexico at the SS time era, too, so in SS we have TWO Mexicans and no Americans! How 'bout that? Grenade Falcon: Pay no attention to that. It was obviously part of SNK's inside cameo jokes that was a common factor in the first two SS games (Mai Shiranui in Gen-an and Haohmaru's endings in SS 1, Kim Kaphwan replacing the Courier Man at times in SS 2, etc.). It was just obviously a prank... Posted by Nakkurusu on 03:08:2002 10:55 PM: In what order do the endings in KOF '99 and '00 happen? I mean, when does Heidern find Krizald's body? When did Whip shoot (Clone) Zero? Did Heidern or Kula stop the Zero cannon, etc. Also who is the Krizald in KOF '01? Is it possible that Benimaru's team was in the same sitiuation the Fatal Fury Team was in their ending? Thanks in advance. Posted by Lantis on 03:10:2002 03:51 AM: Nakkurusu: If you ask me, here's how the way it goes: KOF '99 1) Hero Team ending. K' and the others defeat Krizalid. Krizalid gets busted by Zero's rock. Kyo Kusanagi shows up. K' wants to settle things with Kyo, but Kyo directs himself to Zero (the light). Then Zero closes Benimaru and Shingo off from K', Maxima, and Kyo. Zero bids them all farewell. 2) Ikari Team ending. Whip stays behind to talk with the dying Krizalid. Meanwhile, the mercenary squad that Heidern displayed to the sector 70599 (or maybe its' the NESTS extermination squad?) arrive and attempt to seize K' and Maxima. They drive them off, but not before K' gets to reveal his true potential. 3) NESTS base begins to crumble. This is where the Fatal Fury Team ending (where Terry is presumed dead), Art of Fighting Team ending (Takuma is presumed dead), and Psycho Soldier Team ending (the one where Kensou saves Athena) happen. 4) NESTS base finally gives in. Female Team ending and Kim Team ending happen (they have nothing to do with the destruction of the NESTS base). Kyo, Iori, and Whip manage to bail out as well. Kyo and Iori vow to destroy NESTS. Whip reports to Heidern. Heidern goes back to check on Krizalid's dead body. KOF 2000 1) Hero Team ending. Zero (clone) is defeated, and attempts to destroy everyone with his Zero Cannon, but fails because Kula (who is atop the Zero Cannon) has deactivated the remote signal. Diana and Foxy show up to stop the clone Zero. Kula fires at Zero's hideout with the Zero Cannon. During the whole chaos, Vanessa and Ramon escape their way, and separate from Maxima and K', who go other way. Kula destroys the Zero Cannon and makes a quick trip back down to Earth. Candy arrives to help her out... 2) Zero Cannon makes impact on Southtown and destroys it. In the middle of the chaos, the Fatal Fury Team ending (Terry is missing aagin), Kim Team ending (Chang and Choi switch bodies), and the Female Team endings happen. Kyo walks up to Zero and asks him about NESTS, but Zero tells him of another challenge that awaits him: Iori. They go at it. Meanwhile, Whip goes to retrieve the experiment data from the fake Zero, and escapes. She meets with K' and Maxima on her way out. The ruins of the Zero Cannon create a "meteor shower" of sorts. 3) Benimaru Team ending (Lin is saved from Ron by Benimaru) and Kula ending happens. 4) As for the Art of Fighting Team and Psycho Soldier Team endings, they let us know of the possibility that the Zero Cannon could have fired twice or 3 times (one destroys Southtown, the other gets deflected by Takuma or Bao). 5) Heidern informs that the other 19 Zero Cannons roaming around in outer space have been deactivated, but it came with a cost: a whole city reduced to ashes. So to answer your questions: *Heidern finds Krizalid's body surely after the base collapses. The death of Krizalid is the final stage of the tournament. *Whip does away with Zero after Kyo (or Iori) talks to him. She must have got rid of the body, since Heidern affirms that no body was actually found. This also happened before she meets with K' and Maxima. *Kula destroyed the Zero Cannon used to destroy Southtown. Hediern and his squad deactivate the other 19 (there were 20 Zero Cannons roaming around in outer space, each aimed at a major city of the world). The Krizalid in KOF 2001 is most likely a clone. He plays no important role in the tournament anyway. When you're talking about the endings for the Benimaru Team and Fatal Fury Team, do you mean KOF 2000? I think they take place in different occasions (Fatal Fury Team ending takes place while the base is crumbling, Benimaru Team ending takes place after the city was destroyed). Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:10:2002 06:55 AM: I have a few questions about Benimaru. 1.) Where did his power come from? 2.) How powerful is he compared to the other fighters? In other words, where would he go on a tiering list of KOF characters? and 3.) What exactly is his fighting style? I'd like to know because if you look at Benimaru's data on the Bison stage in CvS1, it says his fighting style is "Shoot Wrestling". What is the meaning of that? Posted by Darkstalker on 03:10:2002 10:11 AM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon I have a few questions about Benimaru. 1.) Where did his power come from? 2.) How powerful is he compared to the other fighters? In other words, where would he go on a tiering list of KOF characters? and 3.) What exactly is his fighting style? I'd like to know because if you look at Benimaru's data on the Bison stage in CvS1, it says his fighting style is "Shoot Wrestling". What is the meaning of that? 1) No fucking idea... 2) He is on a tier with the higher level of 'second rate' heroes. Which means he's equal, or slightly below, Terry, Ryo etc. 3) It's a variation on...I forgot what... Posted by Nakkurusu on 03:10:2002 08:16 PM: Lantis: Thank you so much. I needed information for a fanfic I'm going to make. Benimaru and Fatal Fury tram comment: In your FAQ you say Beni's team helped fight Zero. But it didn't seem like there was too much indication of that. Also: KOF '97, I posted this list also before, but everyone missed it :P. I don't blame you (it looked a little un-organized. King of Fighters 1997 The majority of the tournament happens Orochi Leona and Orochi Iori vs ?. O. New Face Team vs. Esaka (Old Hero) Team and ? Chris Becomes Orochi. Sacred Forces Team vs Orochi. Sacred Forces Ending. Kyo vs Iori. They both pass out (leaving Nests to pick up Kyo) All endings except Esaka teams and Special endings :P 1998: K' is infused with Kusanagi DNA, and his clone Krizalid is made. Although Krizald is a clone, Maxima and K' work under him. Posted by Darkstalker on 03:10:2002 11:58 PM: quote: Originally posted by Nakkurusu Lantis: Thank you so much. I needed information for a fanfic I'm going to make. Benimaru and Fatal Fury tram comment: In your FAQ you say Beni's team helped fight Zero. But it didn't seem like there was too much indication of that. Also: KOF '97, I posted this list also before, but everyone missed it :P. I don't blame you (it looked a little un-organized. King of Fighters 1997 The majority of the tournament happens Orochi Leona and Orochi Iori vs ?. O. New Face Team vs. Esaka (Old Hero) Team and ? Chris Becomes Orochi. Sacred Forces Team vs Orochi. Sacred Forces Ending. Kyo vs Iori. They both pass out (leaving Nests to pick up Kyo) All endings except Esaka teams and Special endings :P 1998: K' is infused with Kusanagi DNA, and his clone Krizalid is made. Although Krizald is a clone, Maxima and K' work under him. 1997 Orochis Leona vs PROBABLY Ralf and Clark. O.Iori vs Kyo and Chizuru...I think. O.New Face Team vs Hero Team and everyone else. The rest is all correct as far as I know for 97. 1998 I don't believe that Krizalid is a clone. Why would he have a bio sheet then? I think he is just infused with K's power. But that's just my take on it. And about Lantis' FAQ, his final battles are false, but are so entertaining, that he put them in anyway. ^_^ Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:11:2002 02:23 AM: 1) Ki. 2) He can hold his own again Kyo anytime, I think that says a lot. 3) It's a Japanese variation of Thai kickboxing. I don't believe that Krizalid is a clone. Why would he have a bio sheet then? I think he is just infused with K's power. But that's just my take on it. I think that Krizalid IS a clone. I feel this way because Krizalid himself was meant to be the ultimate Kyo clone. He was a merger of DNA and what-not from K' and Kyo. So once he was created I think it would be an easy matter to whip up another clone. It's a possibility that the KoF2K1 Krizalid striker is the original but there's nothing to say for sure. The reason I think he isn't is because I don't think there is a such a thing as an "original" Krizalid. I think Krizalid was compmletely artificial from the ground up, not like how the Zero you fight in 2K is a direct clone of the Zero you fight in 2K1. Posted by Lantis on 03:11:2002 05:10 AM: Nakkurusu: Yeah, like Darkstalker said, I pretty much made up the final battles in my FAQ, but only to the move-by-move point (I mean, that K' finished off this or that boss with this or that move doesn't move he actually DID, it's just a way to add a more dramatic feel to stuff). But, there IS actually some order to it...for example, I put the Hero Team and Benimaru Team together because both teams had people who had personal agendas with NESTS (Everyone except for Ramon had links with NESTS in the Hero Team, and both Seth and Lin had ties with the NESTS as well, besides, Benimaru and Shingo were part of the former Hero Team, so they are important in their own vein). The rest of the teams I left around at my own free will...for example, I placed the Fatal Fury Team inside the factory (fending off NESTS agents) because of the fact that Terry vanished in the destruction of the building during the explosion according to the ending. Notice that if a team didn't neccesarily had to fight in Zero's hideout to get their ending, I left them out of the final brawl I wrote... It's wacked, but it does at least make a little sense... As for KOF '97, the result was easy...Take the following points in consideration: *Iori and Leona go wack near the end of the tournament. This is certain from the ROB Iori/Leona cinemas where they go wack at the celebration ceremony. Now, who would fight them? Notice that if you had Ralf and Clark in the same team, they had a special dialogue before they fight ROB Leona (like "Let's stop her!"). Sure, Iori has one too, but it wasn't quite relevant. Besides, Ralf and Clark were more personally involved with Leona, so I let them have the responsibility of fighting ROB Leona. Regarding ROB Iori, well, what would be the first thing in Iori's mind if he was ever granted incredible power, and then call me back. *Although the Hero Team vs. Orochi New Face Team seemed like a fair fight (3 vs. 3), the ONFT simply has too much power to be dealt with just 3 people alone (Daimon, IMO, would do little or nothing to stop any of the ONFT members by himself), so I threw in some "extra help" to aid them...besides, the fight decided the fate of the planet, so it was logical that I had to get everyone into gear to save their precious planet. Regarding Benimaru, Rasa is right, he is like Ken is to Ryu...except that there is no proof that Benimaru has EVER defeated Kyo in a fight. Still, though, being able to stand against Kyo is an achievement in itself. That's why I'm puzzled that both Benimaru are Vice are tagged as "ratio 1" characters in CvS 1, when they could easily beat the shit out of the likes of Raiden, Zangief, or Balrog (same goes for Dhalsim and Cammy at the Capcom side, their potential power is far more than what the number tells us). Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:11:2002 07:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by Lantis Regarding Benimaru, Rasa is right, he is like Ken is to Ryu...except that there is no proof that Benimaru has EVER defeated Kyo in a fight. Still, though, being able to stand against Kyo is an achievement in itself. Does that mean he's on the same level as Kyo or is he just powerful enough as say, Terry, to at least put up a good fight with him? And in response to Rasa's answer for my first question about Benimaru, what I meant was, does his power have some sort of family history like the Kusanagi flames? I feel there has to be some significant info as to why his main element is lightning. quote: That's why I'm puzzled that both Benimaru are Vice are tagged as "ratio 1" characters in CvS 1, when they could easily beat the shit out of the likes of Raiden, Zangief, or Balrog (same goes for Dhalsim and Cammy at the Capcom side, their potential power is far more than what the number tells us). The ratio system in CvS obviously has no say-so whatsoever in the potentials of each character. Instead, Capcom sought to build it on the roles the characters play. Ratio 1- secondary characters/sidekicks Ratio 2- main characters/others who are roughly on the same level of strength and/or skill Ratio 3- boss characters Ratio 4- hidden supremely destructive beings CvS1's ratio system should not be looked upon as a tiering list. If that were the case, some of the weaker characters like Zangief or Blanka wouldn't be in the game as they're not on Capcom's official tier listings of most powerful SF characters (they did make one according to the Plot Guide by Tiamat). Perhaps it was because so many fans were disappointed by this that Capcom decided to make the ratios adjustable for CvS Pro and CvS2. Speaking of which, can someone put up a tiering list of the most powerful KOF characters? Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:11:2002 03:40 PM: Well, Cammy -was- a main character of Street Fighter Alpha 3, I feel... :P Certainly more so than Blanka or Zangief, LOL. But yea, CvS... is just... Capcom being strange. Ryu should be on the same tier as Sagat and Bison should be ratio 4, not 3, etc. Those ratios were... weird. Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:11:2002 09:37 PM: And in response to Rasa's answer for my first question about Benimaru, what I meant was, does his power have some sort of family history like the Kusanagi flames? I feel there has to be some significant info as to why his main element is lightning. None, it's just very well developed ki. The same goes for just about every character in the King of Fighters series except for the Yagami/Kusanagi/Kagura related characters. They're using blood-inherited magical powers that they would have regardless of if they practiced any kind of life style that involves ki or not (though they still do to help refine said magical powers). Posted by Nakkurusu on 03:12:2002 03:00 AM: Am I the only one who notices this?: Guardian - Last Blade - Hero Team - O. New Faces Team Suzaku - Kagami Shinnosuke - Kyo Kusanagi - Chris Seiryuu - Kaede - Benimaru - Shermie Byakko - Naoe Shigen - Goro Damion - Yashiro Nanasake Genbu - Genbu no Okina - ? - Goetinz Posted by Bowling Pin on 03:12:2002 03:21 AM: In KOF'02, to what extent can Shingo's powers increase if Saisyu trains him? Why'd Ramon, Vanessa, and Seth try to take out Iori in their ending in '01? Is MotW KOF '08? Are King and Ryo a couple or what? And after reading the AoF team's ending in KOF'00, did the two bang each other or what? Speaking of banging...who laid who in the SNK universe? When did Psycho Soldier take place, and does it fit into the KOF continuity? Did Kyo get his high school diploma yet? Posted by Neo_Rasa on 03:12:2002 04:56 AM: Nakkurusu Am I the only one who notices this?: Nope, I noticed it too. Myself and Saiki are almost sure there's a connection between Last Blade and FF/AoF/KoF that goes beyond just Zanetsu Kisaragi and Eiji Kisaragi but we're still missing a piece of the puzzle. If a Last Blade 3 or a Garou 2 were to be released we may be able to formulate something more tangible than the minor theories that have come up til now. In KOF'02, to what extent can Shingo's powers increase if Saisyu trains him? Well technically he cannot weild the Kusanagi flames, but he may be able to develop his ki enough that he can do flame like attacks to mimic them. He is already a pretty hard-hitting fighter and the full extend of his potential hasn't been revealed yet. Why'd Ramon, Vanessa, and Seth try to take out Iori in their ending in '01? Because Iori Yagami is the definition of loose cannon. Notice that in every other King of Fighters game where Iori Yagami is on a team, the ending involves Iori Yagami attempting to rip hi teammates apart with his bare hands. It's perfectly reasonable that they would try to get the jump on him first. Is MotW KOF '08? Yup. Are King and Ryo a couple or what? And after reading the AoF team's ending in KOF'00, did the two bang each other or what? I would assume so. Speaking of banging...who laid who in the SNK universe? Andy Bogard and Mai Shiranui Ashura and Shiki Cheng Sinzan and his wife Iori Yagami and Vice and Mature Geese Howard and Marie Heinlein Gen-an Shiranui and Azami Shiranui Goenitz and Vice and Mature Guidel and ???? Haohmaru and Shizu Heidern and Sandra John Crawley and his girlfriend Kim Kap Hwan and his wife Kubikiri Basara and Kagaribi Robert Garcia and Yuri Sakazaki Rugal Bernstein and Vice and Mature Rody Birts and Lenny Creston Ryo Sakazaki and King Ryuhaku Todoh and Shizuka Todoh Saishu Kusanagi and Shizuka Kusanagi Tachibana Ukyo and Odagiri Kei Takuma Sakazaki and his wife Vice and Mature ... SNK characters get around. When did Psycho Soldier take place, and does it fit into the KOF continuity? It would probably be some time in the late eighties to early nineties. 1987 since that's the year it came out seems like a good guess for now. Did Kyo get his high school diploma yet? Nope. Posted by Apprentice on 03:12:2002 05:24 AM: Hmm... Is it confirmed anywhere that Vice and Mature are bisexual? It's easy to slash them, sure, but the same could be said of Ryu and Ken. -Paul Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:12:2002 06:00 AM: Is that Vice and Mature stuff in that banging list serious and actual canon or just a joke? Goenitz and Iori and Rugal? Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:12:2002 06:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by Neo_Rasa Iori Yagami and Vice and Mature What prompted Iori to do this? Did he decide that the only way to relax from hunting down Kyo is to get ****ed by Vice and Mature? Gee, I thought Iori was 100% anti-social. Then again, I guess he'd be a fool to pass it up. quote: Originally posted by Apprentice Hmm... Is it confirmed anywhere that Vice and Mature are bisexual? It's easy to slash them, sure, but the same could be said of Ryu and Ken. Well, they do seem to stick with each other like glue wherever they go. Vice has that boyish attitude (not to mention her hairstyle) and she even has a winpose where she walks up to her fallen victim and lays on top of them, male OR female, so here's hopin'! ............ But Ryu and Ken?! quote: Originally posted by TiamatRoar Is that Vice and Mature stuff in that banging list serious and actual canon or just a joke? Goenitz and Iori and Rugal? Their mannerisms display their horniness quite easily. Vice has a taunt where she gets on the floor and moans like a sex kitten, and Mature likes to show a lot of leg, so I think it's conceivable that they pleasured Rugal and Goenitz to gain their trust (although it probably meant nothing, since they would betray them later on). Iori banging them up is what I want an answer to. Posted by Bowling Pin on 03:12:2002 02:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon What prompted Iori to do this? Did he decide that the only way to relax from hunting down Kyo is to get ****ed by Vice and Mature? Gee, I thought Iori was 100% anti-social. Then again, I guess he'd be a fool to pass it up. To me, Iori doesn't come off as someone who actually realized his penis had a purpose other than pissing. Posted by Siegfried on 03:12:2002 03:42 PM: Vice and Mature hate each other, and only work together because of their "blood relation". I doubt they'd bang each other or any of their associates. Besides, I think Iori has an unnamed girlfriend. Didn't he also have the hots for Yuki? Posted by Lantis on 03:12:2002 04:44 PM: Grenade Falcon: Yes, Benimaru should be around Terry and Ryo's level actually, in that they are the strongest "normal" fighters, only behind the guys with "magical powers", as Rasa would tag them (which would also include the Orochi Heavenly Kings as well as Kyo, Iori, and Chizuru). Siegfried: I never knew Iori had the hots for Yuki, I guess that if SNK didn't give him any shape of a "girlfriend", everyone would still be thinking that Iori really chases Kyo around because he has the hots for him (no pun intended). Back to Mature and Vice, I doubt they would be banging their masters that often (that wouldn't make them any better than Morrigan, in the case that they give pleasure then kill their victims). That would also make Shermie look a bit bad since she's stuck with Yashiro and Chris...But then again, speaking of which, why didn't you put Yashiro and Shermie, Rasa? It's obvious that there is something "fishy" going around between them, as I quote Yashiro from his special intro with Shermie in KOF '98: "Tanoshimoze!" (Let's have some fun!). Ummm...Yeah! Terry Bogard and Blue Mary Kyoshiro Senryo and the woman that Mizuku possessed (possibly) Nienhalt Sieger and the princess of Prusia Goro Daimon and his mystery wife (he has the kid! ) Hanzo Shiranui and his wife...uhhh...what was her name? Chin Gentsai and his wife Choi Bounge and his wife (don't conceive ANY image about this!) I think Takuma wife's name was Ronnet...One of Yuri's special possessions are the "earrings of Ronnet", which I may think were of her mother. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:12:2002 06:26 PM: Okay, yea, I know that Mature is promiscuous in personality, but on a side note, in all honesty, showing a lot of leg really isn't a good argument as to saying a girl is horny. Cammy and Chun-Li and R. Mika I'm pretty sure aren't like that... Anyways, one of the reasons I have trouble believing it is because Iori and Goenitz just don't seem like the types that would go randomly sleeping with girls like that Maaaaybe Rugal, but Iori and Goeniz? Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:12:2002 07:25 PM: Why does the concept of Mature and Vice being sluts to help further their position seem so outlandish? Besides if I find it I'll post up a picture from one of the artbooks of Iori sitting back with Vice and Mature, uhm, close to him on leashes. Also Vice and Mature don't hate each other, they just don't like each other but work together to further their primary goals (Mature to become more powerful in the Orochi heirarchy and Vice to have sex with and eviscerate many things). Vice is a psychotic whore by definition and I'm sure if sex was all it takes to keep Vice at your side Mature probably wouldn't mind, since they're both VERY EVIL PEOPLE WHO WANT TO RESSURRECT THE HUMAN INCARNATION OF A CREATURE THAT WILL DESTROY ALL HUMAN LIFE. IMO Vice and Mature never were better than Morrigan. Vice enjoys having sex and killing people and Mature enjoys scheming up ways to become powerful. It'd be naive to think they haven't banged everyone they've ever worked with at some point. Anyone who hangs around or is in a band of any kind for a while KNOWS Iori gets around a lot, that's not up for argument. Most prudes don't walk around in punk rock bondage pants all the time as well. Rugal is a given because he's a self-centered egoist to the tenth degree. It's the same as if I listed Benimaru Nikaido+countless misc. women. Also I thought Terry was still hesitant about Blue Mary? I left out Yashiro+Shermie by mistake. Curses. ><; Dammit Lantis I left out the other ON PURPOPSE cause I don't want to think about Choi/Chin/Takuma/etc. etc. on one list! Iori does have an unnamed girlfriend, if she were of any real importance besides being Iori's sperm receptacle for a year they'd have given her a name. Edit: I'm not sure if Ronnet is a name though, it may be a company because of the grammar in the profile. Like how Iori's favorite thing is "bass guitar of Rickenbacher" which was an actual guitar company from maybe twenty years ago. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:12:2002 07:49 PM: I'm sure Cammy, Chun-Li and R.Mika don't dress that way to attract men. That's just what they wear when they fight of course. But in the case of Mature, well, she's got a dress on and she occasionally pulls it back to flaunt her legs, but you're probably right about that not showing how horny she is; she's probably just showing off. Vice is definitely excessively horny, though. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:12:2002 10:40 PM: Okay, maybe there was something about Iori that I didn't know about. But I still can't picture Goenitz deciding to sleep around like that. He just seems too... formal to decide to do something like that. At any rate, I guess this is mostly just thought and theory and nothing SNK directly stated, huh? That was all I was really wondering, really. On a random side note, has it ever really been stated WHY Vice and Mature want to revive Orochi? I really hope it's not the case that the only reason why is because 'They are evil!!!'. Oh, and ditto for Goenitz, too. Though it's easier to picture him wanting to revive Orochi because he's a religious fanatic. Posted by Lantis on 03:13:2002 06:11 AM: This thread has suddenly became NA-17 rated... Tiamat Roar: Mature and Vice have the same purpose than all the other Orochi clan members - to revive the Orochi power. But unlike the others, they want to be on the WINNING side of the whole scheme. When Goenitz sent them to look over Rugal, they knew Rugal would be too weak to handle the Orochi power that Goenitz gave him, so they just watched over so things would go as planned. But when Goenitz sent them to team up with Iori, they realized that Iori could become far more powerful than Goenitz (potentially) since he was destined to become a part of the "3 Weapons of God". So, they decided to side with Iori when Goenitz told them that their job was done. And we all know that they pay for being so damn horny and scheming... By the way, I managed to harness some "interesting" dialogue from the Yagami Team's pre-dialogue before you fight Goenitz in KOF '96: (After you defeat Chizuru) Iori: Are you talking about these women? These women can't even protect their own virginity! Vice: What the...? Mature: Hey, you used us, Yagami! Iori: Of course, you served me well as the pawns you are! Nothing better than a bam-slam-thank you ma'am! Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:13:2002 07:42 AM: So... they want to revive Orochi power just because they are members of the Orochi clan? Sigh, that's what I thought. Oi vey, what a shallow motive that is. I must do something because I was born to do it! Course... then again, Mature and Vice really aren't the most developed characters anyways, even if they are really styling. Ah well. Thanks ^^ LOL, who doesn't want to be on the winning side? Posted by Darkstalker on 03:13:2002 07:59 AM: quote: Originally posted by TiamatRoar So... they want to revive Orochi power just because they are members of the Orochi clan? Sigh, that's what I thought. Oi vey, what a shallow motive that is. I must do something because I was born to do it! Course... then again, Mature and Vice really aren't the most developed characters anyways, even if they are really styling. Ah well. Thanks ^^ LOL, who doesn't want to be on the winning side? I want to be on the side which gains the most (money-wise, women/girl-wise, video game-wise, music-wise etc). Posted by D-Force on 03:13:2002 01:27 PM: quote: Originally posted by Darkstalker I want to be on the side which gains the most (money-wise, women/girl-wise, video game-wise, music-wise etc). So do we all, man...so do we all Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:13:2002 06:51 PM: This thread has suddenly became NA-17 rated... I should make an edited version of my Rasa and Friends avatar to commemorate the occassion. Ah finally SOMEONE (thank you Lantis ) remembers KoF'96. Everyone's right though Vice and Mature would NEVER sleep with Iori Yagami. Nevermind that it's spoken about IN THE ONLY STORYLINE RELEVANT GAME WHERE THEY'RE ALIVE. Mature and Vice exist to have sex and kill people. They're classic femme fatales who die classic femme fatale deaths by getting manipulated and killed off by the people they were trying to manipulate in the first place. You all need to watch Bound and Diabolique (the original 1955 version, not that remake bullshit). I'm sorry I really don't mean to sound as harsh as this probably reads, but why did this seem like such a shocking concept to everyone at first? TiamatRoar: Yes, destiny makes storylines very boring unfortunately. Even Shermie/Chris/Yashiro Nanakase were drawn to each other and trusted each other on a subconsious level because of their heritage. Though on the other hand, whenever an Orochi-related characters tries something different from the norm (Vice/Mature/Guidel/Ryuji) they end up either being killed or going MIA. Iori and Leona are the only exceptions. Oh and Lantis I double checked and there is no Ronnett jewlry company that has ever existed and Ronnett is a valid female name, so it is Takuma's wife's name afterall. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:13:2002 08:37 PM: I dunno. I'm a newbie to KOF a bit so I wouldn't be able to catch a specific line like that, but iori just didn't seem like the type to me. Well, guess I was wrong. That line pretty much confirms it^^ Hmm... wow, wonder about the others. Didn't realize Andy actually slept with Mai before, since he's repelling her often. Guess that debunks all those "Why doesn't Andy marry Mai!? Is he gay!?" statements that lots of people gave. Hmm... does All About SNK like... officially state when a character bangs another character or something? Posted by Dark LordDragon on 03:14:2002 12:20 AM: A stupied question but I don't know!? Is Amakusa male or female!? I am really confused... Posted by Nakkurusu on 03:14:2002 12:27 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dark LordDragon A stupied question but I don't know!? Is Amakusa male or female!? I am really confused... Host body: Male. Spirit possesing body: Female. Thinking about it to hard: Priceless. Posted by Lantis on 03:14:2002 03:51 AM: Tiamat Roar: Well, there is pretty suspicious evidence that Andy MIGHT have done something is Mai, and the evidence lies in their special intro in KOF '99, where Mai shows a "baby" to Andy (that turns out to be a fake), but Andy nevertheless gets a bit shocked about the revelation. Now, why would Andy be shocked like that...Maybe they DID have unprotected sexual relations, and Andy didn't see her for like 9 months, and then WAM! A baby? I bet even you would be shocked...But Andy's reaction is a dead giveaway. And we all know how Mai does everything in her power to tie Andy to her, so why not the way everyone else does? And no, SNK doesn't giveaway who bangs who...but you can tell by the character's reactions that something COULD have happened, and I don't think it was just a cup of tea... Posted by Lantis on 03:14:2002 03:54 AM: Ummmm....Dark Lord Dragon? You made the exact same question at page 1 of the thread...and it was answered. What gives? Posted by Darkstalker on 03:14:2002 09:28 AM: Question: Has Vanessa's past been explained? If so, what is it? Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:14:2002 11:59 AM: Got some questions about Geese. 1.) What was Geese trying to accomplish in each game he was in? I don't believe Geese hosted the first KOF tournament just to sit on his ass and wait for a new challenger. 2.) What was Geese's relationship with Rock like? 3.) The Geese data on the Bison stage in CvS1 says that his fighting style is Kobujutsu. What type of style is it? 4.) Why didn't Geese let Terry help him at the end of Real Bout? Does this indicate that Geese could possibly still be alive and return in the Garou series? And here's some more questions about Athena. 1.) What's this I hear about her being a reincarnation of a goddess? What was she a goddess of? 2.) Is her Psycho Power just another form of ki, or is it hereditary? And how would it differ from the Psycho Power used by Bison? 3.) What fighting style does she use? 4.) How powerful is she compared to the other KOF characters? Posted by Lantis on 03:14:2002 02:51 PM: Darkstalker: Not much about Vanessa has been revealed. We DO know that she was once married (because of her wedding ring) but by the way she acts around Ramon, I think her husband either died or is missing. Besides, why would a married woman be in an organization like NESTS and wander off fighting in tournaments (I would understand Guile, who was driven by revenge, but Vanessa?)? Grenade Falcon: Actually, Grenade, in the first King of Fighters tournament (FF 1), Geese only seeked to eliminate those who could pose a threat to his supreme reign in Southtown. I don't think Geese needed to prove anything, since he was already the most powerful man in Southtown, both financially and strength-wise. He could have also had organized the tournament out of sheer boredom for the lack of challengers, but I would most likely go with the first one...after that, Geese played a major role in the other KOF tournaments, but as a spectator, using his bodyguard Billy to watch over the events in the tournament. That's how he knew about the Orochi power and such. Up until the day he died, Geese never lost track of the events around him, that's what made him such a damn conspirating bastard. 2) As you may have guessed, it was pretty cold. When Rock's mother (Marie Heinlein) was terribly sick, Rock walked up to Geese and tried to convince him in helping her (since Marie constantly whispered Geese's name in her agony). But Geese gave him the cold shoulder, and after Marie died, Rock has been burning in resentment against Geese ever since, even after his death. 3) I guess it's the same style as Kasumi/Ryuhaku Todoh, with all those counter-based stuff and crap like that. Notice how both Kasumi and Geese have counters? I guess that's what Kobojutsu is all about. Geese learned Kobojutsu from Blue Mary's grandfather (before he was Tung Fu Rue's student, I guess), and once he learned all he could, he promptly slained him. 4) Some have said that Geese wanted to make what Terry never wanted to be: a murderer like him. But I think it has something to do with the legacy he left in Rock. Or maybe he knows he would haunt Terry's memories no matter what. You can never know what cruises the mind of this sick bastard... 5) Athena is based on the Greek goddess of war. If you have ever seen the anime/manga Saint Seiya you would a bit more about that. Athena is said to be the reincarnation of that goddess and that is why she has so potent psychic powers (but why she is not as powerful as the real Athena, I don't know). 6) Unlike Psycho Power, which harnesses from negative emotions, Athena's psychic power comes from her divine representation. You can never know what goes on in the body of a goddess reincarnated... 7) A way of Chinese Kung-Fu/Kempo. 8) Surprisingly enough, she is not at the level of Kyo and Iori, when she is supposed to be. But she DOES have enough potential to compete against Terry and Ryo, so I would say she goes around the top third tier, above Benimaru, Daimon, Robert, Ikaris, etc.. I can even say she can be on the same level as Terry and Ryo (which is directly below Kyo and Iori). Posted by Siegfried on 03:14:2002 02:52 PM: >1.) What was Geese trying to accomplish in each game he was in? I don't believe Geese hosted the first KOF tournament just to sit on his ass and wait for a new challenger. Somehow I don't think there was a point to it back then. It might have been him wanting to locate the most powerful fighters in the city and find out who would assist or oppose him. >2.) What was Geese's relationship with Rock like? Apparently Rock hated his guts. He really does love his mother and doesn't seem to have any hard feelings against Kain even though he continues Geese's legacy. Maybe Geese simply raped Marie? Somehow I don't see him as a family man... >3.) The Geese data on the Bison stage in CvS1 says that his fighting style is Kobujutsu. What type of style is it? http://www.rkagb.com/ Kobujutsu seems to be a style mainly using weapons, but also karate. Other fighters (like Nina Williams) are said to use a combination of koppo (?) and aikido, which uses many counters and throws and looks more like Geese's style. Maybe someone made a mistake? >4.) Why didn't Geese let Terry help him at the end of Real Bout? Does this indicate that Geese could possibly still be alive and return in the Garou series? Pride. He could be alive, but I doubt it. In fact, why can't Grant be Geese returned from the dead? I know his real name is Abel Cameron, but then again we have Iroqouis Pliskin ^_^. Grant seems to be partly demonic - maybe Geese struck a deal with the devil and returned? Oh well, just speculation. Grant is 18 cm taller and 23 kg heavier too. >And here's some more questions about Athena. >1.) What's this I hear about her being a reincarnation of a goddess? What was she a goddess of? She's supposed to be a reincarnation of the Greek goddess Pallas Athena, or just Athena. She was the protector of Athens (duh) and had the owl as her sign IIRC. >2.) Is her Psycho Power just another form of ki, or is it hereditary? And how would it differ from the Psycho Power used by Bison? I don't think Athena's and Bison's powers are connected. If anything, Athena would be using Soul Power like Rose if the worlds did exist together. Athena is pure good. >3.) What fighting style does she use? Beats me. Probably a form of kung fu. >4.) How powerful is she compared to the other KOF characters? Compared to normal people she's quite powerful, but she lacks experience. And with "normal" fighters like Terry and Andy around, summoning fireballs and teleporting isn't that much to brag about. Athena has never been directly connected to the storyline, much like the FF and AoF teams. It's possible though that Chin and Kensou limit the team's potential. She's certainly more powerful than them. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:14:2002 05:57 PM: SNK made a game called Athena where the main character is the Goddess Athena, and the plot is that she's trying to find adventure because she's bored (There are several webpages that have this in their 'silliest game plots ever' lists). ...it was a very very VERY old game. Was on the Nintendo Entertainment system:P The running joke is that the Athena of KOF is the same as the Athena of SNK's Athena. Or at least a reference, I believe^^ Isn't Grant's history like... remarkably different from Geese's? He seems to have been close to Marie and Kain, unlike Geese. Though I dunno how much of that Fatal Fury story FAQ is theory and how much of it is confirmed Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:14:2002 06:39 PM: 1.) What was Geese trying to accomplish in each game he was in? I don't believe Geese hosted the first KOF tournament just to sit on his ass and wait for a new challenger. He held King of Fighters so that anyone who could possible pose a physical threat to him would be killed or put out of action. Remember that the way it was set up, Billy Kane was supposed to kill or otherwise completely incapacitate whoever got up to him in the heirarchy after Geese set him up as the champion. Billy gets shortsold in the King of Fighters games but remembered that he's extremely skilled and was trained by Geese himself. Game by game: Fatal Fury: King of Fighters~ Geese wants to make his crime syndicate international. Terry and Andy get in his way and he takes the big fall. He was also into finding the Qin scrolls. Fatal Fury 2/Special~ Geese is alive but lets Krauser run KoF for a while and bides his time/recovers/etc. Fatal Fury 3~ The truth of the Qin scrolls is revealed. This game isn't an actual tournament. EVERYONE in it has come back to Southtown to either get revenge on Geese or to go after the scroll. KoF'94/'95~ Geese just observes. He got an invitation to KoF'95 since it was found out he was alive again in FF3 but he didn't feel it was important enough so he sent Billy in his place to form his own team (yes, it's the GEESE team in '95, not the Iori team. ). KoF'96~ Geese finds out what the Orochi power is capable of during '95, so he decides to personally participate in the '96 tournament this time. He's a major badass since he was able to get Mr. Big and Wolfgang Krauser (who what, controls half of Europe for fun?) to work with him. After all is said and done Geese decides that "The Orochi power wasn't anything worth writing home about afterall." and they go home. KoF'97~ Geese gets invited to KoF again but declines because he's got better things to do what with finding most (if not all) of the scrolls at this time. So he sends Billy again with Yamazaki and Blue Mary (it's amazing what money can do ). RBFF1~ With Rugal and all those Orochi bums dead, and Chizuru having lost interest in KoF now that Orochi is sealed Geese holds KoF himself in Southtown. I think he does so to both celebrate that he's found out so much about the scrolls and to get another shot at Terry Bogard. KoFEX~ GEESE IS BACK! HOLY SHIT!!!! Actually I'm not sure yet if KoFEX is before or after RBFF1. The important thing though is that Geese is alive at the end of it. Anyways Billy remained the undefeated King of Fighters until 1991 when Terry/Andy/Joe came to town. 3.) The Geese data on the Bison stage in CvS1 says that his fighting style is Kobujutsu. What type of style is it? Geese uses a combination of Hakkyokuseiken and Kobujutsu as his style. The styles in question here: Aikijujitsu~ Very old Japanese fighting style, is considered to be the direct successor of Gojo-ryu (supposedly the first martial art to appear in Japan). Geese is sometimes listed as using this because it's the closest real-life fighting style to how he fights ingame. In its purest form this is an extremely ruthless style. Hakkyokuseiken~ Fictional style similar to Aikijujitsu but more ki oriented and more balanced between offense and defense. This is what Tung Fu Rue was teaching to Geese Howard and Jeff Bogard. Kobojutsu~ This was taught to Geese Howard by Toji Sakata. While it's more of a defensive style overall it involves much more weapon instruction than Aikido and other similar styles currently do in most sects. Granted ALL of the styles listed here are all-around fighting techniques that involve extensive weapons training and everything Koppo~ Koppo-ken is an old Japanese form of what I believe was Wu Shu Kung Fu? I don't know too much about this style other than that Andy Bogard uses both it and Shiranui Ninjitsu. This may also have it's roots in Gojo-ryu but I really don't know for sure. The real style utilizes lots of bone breaking and hard hitting moves to quickly incapacitate an enemy. All of these styles have similar roots and share some qualities so in fiction they're often interchanged with each other. On a different note, I always thought it was a great credit to the character designers, that both Geese, Terry, Andy, AND Tung used Hakkyokuseiken as their base style and then mixed it with other techniques and moves of their own. So even though you have four people who started with the same style in the storyline their ingame moves and stances are completely different. 4.) Why didn't Geese let Terry help him at the end of Real Bout? Does this indicate that Geese could possibly still be alive and return in the Garou series? Because Geese is awesome. It makes Terry look like murderer (and FEEL like one) so he then had to adopt Rock outwardly because it was the right thing to do but subconsiously as a penance for "killing" his father. He doesn't want Rock to become what he did after Geese killed his father. But then Rock joins Kain at the end of Garou So even while seeking self-redemption Terry inadvertantly carries on Geese's plans after his physical death. The Legacy of Geese Howard is now eternal and visions of Geese laughing as he plummets to his death will forever haunt Terry all cause he couldn't hold on tighter. Ahem. Anyways. At this time Geese Howard is dead. He COULD come back in just about any game and they could make it plausible by using the Qin scrolls as an explanation (since SNK wisely never explained exactly how into them Geese got) but for the time being, he's really dead. 1.) What's this I hear about her being a reincarnation of a goddess? What was she a goddess of? Athena has been said to be the goddess of victory, wisdom, war, and all that good stuff. 2.) Is her Psycho Power just another form of ki, or is it hereditary? And how would it differ from the Psycho Power used by Bison? It's...Psycho Power. Athena supposedly has it because she's the reincarnation of the original Athena but they never say what Kensou and Bao are doing with it (though Kensou LOST his powers in the storyline at that one point so you never know). If the current KoF2K2 rumors are true then we'll all find out since supposedly the dragon power/etc. that the Psycho Soldiers team has is going to be sought after by some new villains and the whole game will take on a more mystical slant than the technocracy stuff we've had from '99~'01. No relation to the Psycho Power of the Street Fighter series. 3.) What fighting style does she use? Some kind of Chinese Kung Fu, I honestly can't remember which. 4.) How powerful is she compared to the other KOF characters? Pretty powerful I'd say. Maybe she's holding back and just entering the tournaments to help push her new album? If I were Athena I'd feel like shit getting reincarnated into a j-pop idol. Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:14:2002 06:48 PM: quote: Originally posted by TiamatRoar SNK made a game called Athena where the main character is the Goddess Athena, and the plot is that she's trying to find adventure because she's bored (There are several webpages that have this in their 'silliest game plots ever' lists). ...it was a very very VERY old game. Was on the Nintendo Entertainment system:P The running joke is that the Athena of KOF is the same as the Athena of SNK's Athena. Or at least a reference, I believe^^ Isn't Grant's history like... remarkably different from Geese's? He seems to have been close to Marie and Kain, unlike Geese. Though I dunno how much of that Fatal Fury story FAQ is theory and how much of it is confirmed That's right Athena was an SNK arcade game that was later ported to the C64, Spectrum, and NES. Then Psycho Soldiers came out (which I think only got a C64 and maybe an Amiga port). Psycho Soldiers was cool cause it had the first fully vocalized and lyracsized song in a video game. That theme was remixed as the Psycho Soldiers theme song for KoF'94~'98. The schoolgirl uniform comes from Psycho Soldiers and the bikini outfit was her default costume in Athena before you found any armor (the extra striker Athena in Ko2K is the Athena Athena after getting some powerups). Grant is a very close friend of Kain and he's powerful. That's all that's really known about him for sure. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:14:2002 08:42 PM: Hmmmm, then I guess the Kusanagis and the Yagamis developed their own form of Kobojutsu that doesn't appear to be as defensive as Geese's, because as far as I can tell, Kyo and Iori don't have the same counters as Geese. What else do they use that isn't ki oriented? Here's a couple more questions regarding Rock. 1.) Did Geese personally train him to do the Double Repuken and the Deadly Rave Neo? 2.) Is he supposedly at the same level that Terry was in earlier Fatal Fury's during Mark of the Wolves? A couple more questions about Haohmaru and Nakoruru. 1.) Would you say that they fight by the code of Bushido? 2.) What is Nakoruru's connection with nature? One more about Vice. 1.) The Vice data on the CvS1 Bison stage categorizes her fighting style under "Combat Tactics". Is this true? I don't think Vice or Mature know any techniques that are militaristic. And lastly................. Who's the better fighter: Rugal or Geese? Posted by Neo_Rasa on 03:14:2002 08:50 PM: Hmmmm, then I guess the Kusanagis and the Yagamis developed their own form of Kobojutsu that doesn't appear to be as defensive as Geese's, because as far as I can tell, Kyo and Iori don't have the same counters as Geese. What else do they use that isn't ki oriented? Kyo and Iori use a fictional fighting style called Magatama, and since when does Iori have counters? o_o; Also Kyo's counters work in a completely different fashion. There's no connection between the styles. 1.) Did Geese personally train him to do the Double Repuken and the Deadly Rave Neo? Unknown but possible. I would assume Rock is extremely powerful is he can learn them at that young age. 2.) Is he supposedly at the same level that Terry was in earlier Fatal Fury's during Mark of the Wolves? Just about yeah. They're pretty much equal with Terry being a little more powerful/skilled. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:14:2002 09:09 PM: Kyo and Iori use a fictional fighting style called Magatama, and since when does Iori have counters? o_o; I specifically remember from somewhere that their respective arts are called the Kusanagi Kobujutsu and the Yagami Kobujutsu, so I would assume that their ancestors develpoed a totally different form of Kobujutsu from Geese's. I know Iori doesn't have counters, but all I'm saying is that even if he did with the style that he uses, they just wouldn't be the same as Geese's, that's all. Don't think about their ingame techniques; think of how they'd actually fight up close using real martial arts movements. Also Kyo's counters work in a completely different fashion. There's no connection between the styles. Yes, which is what I said in the first place. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:14:2002 09:22 PM: If Marie was calling for Geese's name in agony as she dies, I highly doubt that Geese ever raped her Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:14:2002 11:25 PM: LOL, especially if she was sick too! Posted by Siegfried on 03:15:2002 12:20 AM: >2.) Is he supposedly at the same level that Terry was in earlier Fatal Fury's during Mark of the Wolves? I'd say Rock is on his way to surpass Terry. He certainly has more potential but with only Terry as a teacher, he can only go so far. Maybe if Kain teaches him now... >1.) Would you say that they fight by the code of Bushido? Haohmaru should. I doubt that Nakoruru does though, her pure mentality shouldn't approve of some things in Bushido. I can't see her taking someone's life, hardly even if they're evil. >2.) What is Nakoruru's connection with nature? She was born as the protector of nature, I guess. >1.) The Vice data on the CvS1 Bison stage categorizes her fighting style under "Combat Tactics". Is this true? I don't think Vice or Mature know any techniques that are militaristic. I think this is a mistranslation somewhere. She and Mature have no recorded fighting style. "Orochi Power" perhaps? >Who's the better fighter: Rugal or Geese? They're like Bison compared to Akuma. Geese is a better martial artist but Rugal has some special powers that might put him ahead. Posted by Lantis on 03:15:2002 05:26 AM: Tiamat Roar: Putting the validity of my FF story FAQ in doubt? Hah hah, J/K. OK, the reason why I know that Grant was deeply related with Kain and Marie was because his most prized possession is a photo of his with Marie and Kain, so I guess Grant knew them well. Besides, Grant and Kain act like nice-going compadres in Garou, despite the fact Grant suffers from some terrible illness in Garou, and is assumed to die in the same game (both in his ending and in Kain's, it shows Grant coughing up blood and giving something like a farewell to Kain). Grenade Falcon: 1) I doubt Rock learned anything from Geese since the only thing Geese ever did with Rock was to kick him out of his building (apropiately, not out the top floor window ). So, this could have 2 logical explanations: either SNK wanted fans to realize that Rock was indeed Geese Howard's son by giving him Geese's signature moves (and at the same time, keep the Geese Howard fanbase alive), or Rock is indeed suffering from the evil influence of Geese in his mind, which could enforce the theory that Geese might have planned something involving Rock before he finally died. We might never know for sure if Garou 2 isn't released... 2) Yeah. Rock has the power, but lacks the experience, just like FF 1 Terry was. I think he COULD surpass Terry in due time (something other celebrity disciples, like Sakura, Shingo, and Sean, could only HOPE of). Regarding Haohmaru and Nakoruru: 1) Haohmaru is definetly a follower of the Bushido (way of the sword) way, just like the historic characater he's based on: Musashi Miyamoto. This devotion to the Bushido is what makes him doubt between following the heat of battle or to stay with his girlfriend Oshizu. In fact, a lot of SS characters are followers of this Bushido style, in which we can also find Genjuro (he may be a badass, but he still has his principles) and Jubei Yagyu (obvious, since he's the only "official" samurai and not a "ronin" or a samurai without a master). Nakoruru does not follow this principle: in fact, she's quite peace loving. Her only belief resides in nature, not in the sword (she just uses it as a means to defend her ideals). 2) Nakoruru in an Ainu. The native Ainus in Hokkaido are supposed to be religious people who believe in nature and the gifts that it bring. On a funny note, did you know that, for Ainus, hairy girls are usually attractive? Regarding Vice: 1) Since Vice has no particular martial arts style, I think Capcom used the term "combat tactics" to encompass all the styles which don't have a specific origin. Basically, it just means that Vice knows to fight, but not precisely stuck in a certain style. Regarding Rugal and Geese: Geez, this question again? Rugal had the potential to be better than Geese, and he proved so by mastering the techiniques of both Geese and Krauser. But Rugal hungered for more power, and his ambition was what led him to an untimely death. Unlike Geese, Rugal could not wait and jumped at the first chance he could find to obtain inmense power, but without knowing what that power could take him to. Rugal was powerful, but not smart. Geese was powerful AND smart. End of story. Posted by Lantis on 03:15:2002 05:31 AM: Thanks to everyone for making this topic surpass the 100 post mark! Surely we can take this thing a long way from here...Keep it on people! Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:15:2002 06:20 AM: Grenade Falcon: Sorry for the confusion. I'm too used to people trying to draw connections from things that have none. You get a hundred emails asking of the Heinlein family is Orochi related because they use purple flames and you'll make the same mistake too sooner or later. But to clarify, Kobojutsu is a very general and widely spread style, like Aikido. It's sort of like how Ryu and Ken's official fighting style is "Ansatsuken" but when you try to translate it and the style fundamentals it's like saying their style is using hard hitting attacks. Also, I think some of the Kobojutsu profile listings on the SNK side were put there by SNK of America to use style names more accurate to the ingame fighting styles while some were not and I have yet to sort all of that out yet. If I may ask though do you recall where you read they were called Yagami/Kusanagi Kobojutsu? Haohmaru is the EMBODIMENT of the way of the sword. He/Musashi Miyamoto literally wrote the book on it. Rock is a bum, he's too busy whining about how he doesn't want to fight to become better than Terry, who's strength is his enjoyment of combat. Nakoruru is a very good, kind, and sweet person but will probably murder you if she sees you performing any action that involves the wanton destruction of nature. "Now know nature's wrath!" "You offend mighty nature!" Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:15:2002 06:29 AM: Nah, I trust that Fatal Fury story FAQ a lot more than anything else ^^ A photo of Marie and Kain being his prized possession pretty much confirms that he was a good friend of Marie too, yea^^ Poor Grant. Grant's ending where Kain knows that Grant is doomed to die but won't feel sorry because he respected Grant's choice to die for their ideal of might was a really cool ending, I think. Oh yea, random question. Is Krauser Geese's half brother? Or is that just anime and fancanon? Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:15:2002 02:03 PM: quote: Originally posted by Lantis Regarding Vice: 1) Since Vice has no particular martial arts style, I think Capcom used the term "combat tactics" to encompass all the styles which don't have a specific origin. Basically, it just means that Vice knows to fight, but not precisely stuck in a certain style. Combat Tactics is something the Ikari's, Guile, Cammy and Rolento would fall under, so I doubt Capcom would use that term for Vice if her style has no specific origin, otherwise, they would have listed it as "Unknown" like they did with Morrigan and Bison. quote: Originally posted by Neo Rasa If I may ask though do you recall where you read they were called Yagami/Kusanagi Kobojutsu? An old website, I can't remember exactly. You're probably right about SNK of America using the name Kobujutsu to identify Kyo and Iori's styles, but I do remember that someone called it Kusanagi/Yagami *insert style*. The Kusanagis and the Yagamis taking one style and modifying it to make it their own does sound pretty idealistic; kind of like how Ryo Hazuki of Shenmue uses Judo, yet his style is known by many as the Hazuki style. Oh, and as you may have guessed, Kyo and Iori's styles are also listed as Kusanagi/Yagami Kobujutsu in CvS1's Bison stage. And about Samurai Shodown, which characters are a disgrace to Bushido? You know, as in someone who attacks an opponent when they're defenseless or strikes an enemy in the back when they're retreating? (Heh, heh, Bushido Blade 1's honor system frustrated the fuck out of me!) Posted by Bowling Pin on 03:15:2002 02:10 PM: KOF Neo Blood EX question. Exactly what's going on between Iori and Geese? Posted by Lantis on 03:15:2002 03:59 PM: Tiamat Roar: Hmmm, SNK has not accepted nor denied the fact that Geese and Krauser are half-brothers. It's never mentioned in the games, but it was in the anime. I may tend to believe that it's a hoax, but then again, I could be proven wrong. I never noticed that Geese and Krauser actually hate each other in the games, more like they have some kind of odd repsect for each other (notice in the Boss Team ending for KOF '96, Krauser retreats from the scene without kicking up a fuss like Mr. Big did. He just says it was "a lot of fun" and goes away. Even after he knew that Geese used him and Mr. Big to find out about the Orochi power. Maybe some odd warrior code among them). Grenade Falcon: I would suggest checking out Guile's data in that Shadaloo stage and then compare it to see if Capcom really goofed up in that bit. I think the characters in SS fall in two groups: either they are/were a follower of the Bushido style (those who don't have a master to fight for, or should I say "guys who work on their own" are called "ronins", of which most of the characters fall in), or they are just random blokes/ninjas. If stabbing people in the back is dishonorable, then the entire SS cast should be tagged off, as their is an option in SS 3/4 to sidestep behind the opponent so you can get a freeshot on their back (or you can "guard break" aka throw them behind you, and nail them in the back as well). As you can see, I don't think many SS people respect what Bushido really is... As for KOF EX, sorry, but I've never played the game... Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:15:2002 04:04 PM: Ah, okay. Yea, if it's not mentioned anywhere, it was probably something the anime just made up. I can't picture Geese keeping in touch with his family or so, so the only reason fpr Krauser to be Geese's half brother was because "he just happened to be so" which would be kinda contrived, I think. Seemed mostly to just be an odd respect thing to me, too^^ I figured that Krauser knew he was being used but joined along anyways since he figured that it'd be lots of fun. He held the Fatal Fury 2 tournament just for fun, so he figured that even if it was mostly for Geese's benefit, it'd still be lots of fun to go along with Geese for another KOF tournament. The fact that he takes being used in stride (though maybe being 'utilized' is the better word, since it seems like Krauser knew what Geese wanted but voluntarily decided to go along anyways, since it'd be fun) while Mr. Big takes it so seriously I found to be hilarious Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:15:2002 04:49 PM: Grenade Falcon: I would suggest checking out Guile's data in that Shadaloo stage and then compare it to see if Capcom really goofed up in that bit. Already have. It's Combat Tactics. Same as Cammy. I don't suppose Rugal or Goenitz trained Vice and Mature to be killing machines? I think the characters in SS fall in two groups: either they are/were a follower of the Bushido style (those who don't have a master to fight for, or should I say "guys who work on their own" are called "ronins", of which most of the characters fall in), or they are just random blokes/ninjas. If stabbing people in the back is dishonorable, then the entire SS cast should be tagged off, as their is an option in SS 3/4 to sidestep behind the opponent so you can get a freeshot on their back (or you can "guard break" aka throw them behind you, and nail them in the back as well). As you can see, I don't think many SS people respect what Bushido really is... No, stabbing people in the back when they're trying to make a getaway is dishonorable. If they leave it vulnerable during combat, and they get struck there, then that's their fault. Okay, some minor questions about SS and LB: 1.) (Straight from that Shadaloo stage again.) What is "Shikanna"? Is it a style that only applies to Nakoruru's Kamui Sword or is it something that really means sword fighting, which applies to almost all SS and LB characters? 2.) I see that Ukyo and Takane Hibiki use the same sword. What kind of sword is it? Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:15:2002 04:57 PM: Oh, almost forgot. Here's some about Billy: 1.) What happened to him after Geese died? 2.) Is he pursuing Joe for dating his sister? Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:15:2002 11:05 PM: Combat Tactics is something the Ikari's, Guile, Cammy and Rolento would fall under, so I doubt Capcom would use that term for Vice if her style has no specific origin, otherwise, they would have listed it as "Unknown" like they did with Morrigan and Bison. Yeah, generally the Ikari Warriors have their style listed as "Armed Force Training and Heidern Assassination Technique." So any kind of combat/military/etc. style is a pretty accurate description. An old website, I can't remember exactly. You're probably right about SNK of America using the name Kobujutsu to identify Kyo and Iori's styles, but I do remember that someone called it Kusanagi/Yagami *insert style*. The Kusanagis and the Yagamis taking one style and modifying it to make it their own does sound pretty idealistic; kind of like how Ryo Hazuki of Shenmue uses Judo, yet his style is known by many as the Hazuki style. I have seen it listed as "Kusanagi/Yagami family martial arts" so it's probably the same thing. Oh, and as you may have guessed, Kyo and Iori's styles are also listed as Kusanagi/Yagami Kobujutsu in CvS1's Bison stage. Yes but this is the same company that spells Haohmaru as Haomaru. And about Samurai Shodown, which characters are a disgrace to Bushido? You know, as in someone who attacks an opponent when they're defenseless or strikes an enemy in the back when they're retreating? Well, the characters that seem to be honorable overall are: Caffiene Nicotine Charlotte Gaira Nicotine Haohmaru Jin-Emon Hanafusa Kibagami Genjuro Morozumi Taisan Neinhalt Sieger Seishiro Kuki Senryo Kyoshiro Tachibana Ukyo Yagyu Hanma Yagyu Jubei Still the Samurai Shodown storylines involve very extraordinary circumstances. As a result there isn't really a clean cut listing of who follow the Bushido and who does not. Everyone else is an assassion/ninja/demon/revolutionary/demi-god or any combination of those. Bowling Pin: What I believe happens is Iori just comes out and challenges you (he isn't really working with Geese or anything like that) while you're investigating Geese Tower. Then Geese makes his shocking return to the seen........only to be beaten again and make his tower explode. 1.) (Straight from that Shadaloo stage again.) What is "Shikanna"? Is it a style that only applies to Nakoruru's Kamui Sword or is it something that really means sword fighting, which applies to almost all SS and LB characters? Shikanna sounds like a Russian word, I have no idea how it relates to Nakoruru but I'll see if I can find anything. 2.) I see that Ukyo and Takane Hibiki use the same sword. What kind of sword is it? Ukyo's is called a drying pole because it's VERY long (long enough that he uses the sheath almost like a staff for some of his weak attacks, and is the only character who is never really unarmed even when he loses the sword itself). Overall I don't think the sword has a specific name. The only Last Blade weapon name that comes to mind is the 80 Day Blade (Setsuna's weapon) named after the amount of time it took to completely finish. I don't think the drying pole style weapon really has a specific name because some of the names the weapons have in SS are very personalized and not really universal names for that type of weapon. Ukyo's weapon and style is based off of the blind samurai character Zatoichi from a series of movies, maybe more information can be found there. Oh, almost forgot. Here's some about Billy: 1.) What happened to him after Geese died? Unknown at this time. 2.) Is he pursuing Joe for dating his sister? He's not really pursuing him, he just doesn't like him much. Posted by Lantis on 03:16:2002 04:29 AM: I would add Jushiro Sakaki from SS: Warriors Rage in Rasa's list as well. He's the cool guy who always tries to act nice around the ladies and has a gun incorporated in his sword's handle. He was once Jin-Emon's partner in the service, but once his beloved one died, he wanted out. Then he was marked to death by his own superiors, and Jin-Emon had to carry out the order of execution. Jushiro is actually pretty honorable despite his layback attitude and a daydreamer. Also, those geeky Samurais (same game) could possibly apply, but I guess they're just too dorky and dumb... Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:16:2002 10:17 AM: More SS and LB questions: 1.) Which characters were killed in each series? 2.) Why does Genjuro want Haohmaru dead? Another question regarding Joe and King: What level are they on and who's the better Muay Thai fighter? Posted by D-Force on 03:16:2002 07:11 PM: quote: Originally posted by Nakkurusu Am I the only one who notices this?: Guardian - Last Blade - Hero Team - O. New Faces Team Suzaku - Kagami Shinnosuke - Kyo Kusanagi - Chris Seiryuu - Kaede - Benimaru - Shermie Byakko - Naoe Shigen - Goro Damion - Yashiro Nanasake Genbu - Genbu no Okina - ? - Goetinz Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Seiryu supposed to be the guardian of water and isn't Genbu supposed to be the guardian of earth and Byakko the guardian of wind? Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:16:2002 07:14 PM: Besides it's pretty redundant to say a Samurai follows the code of the Samurai. 1.) Which characters were killed in each series? SS Series~ Well the storyline goes on pretty far in Warriors' Rage on the PSX, so just about EVERYONE was besides Haohmaru, Hattori Hanzo, and Nakoruru (immortal/demi-god like characters excluded). LB Series~ Anatsuki Musashi, Gasei, Shikyo Murkuro, Yuki, Zantetsu Kisaragi 2.) Why does Genjuro want Haohmaru dead? Haohmaru owes him five yen from when he needed gas money. Basically they are rivals who were both taught by Caffiene Nicotine. Genjuro almost killed him at one point and they've been after each other ever since. Another question regarding Joe and King: What level are they on and who's the better Muay Thai fighter? Joe, despite what you may have heard, is probably on Sagat's level. King would easily give Adon a run for his money as well. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:16:2002 09:45 PM: Besides it's pretty redundant to say a Samurai follows the code of the Samurai. Oh, but they have to. If not, they can never BE Samurai. Joe, despite what you may have heard, is probably on Sagat's level. King would easily give Adon a run for his money as well. Joe on Sagat's level? I dunno. If he was that good, he'd be better than Terry. Really, Sagat is a better rival for Ryu than even Ken is, and I don't know anyone else in the SF universe who can beat him other than Ryu and Bison, who by the way, should be an even match for Sagat by the time of SF2. He only lost to Adon because he fought in anger and rage, and he threw the fight when a revengeful Dan challenged him so that he wouldn't see history repeat itself. Joe could give him a good fight, but in the end, I just don't see him winning. I do believe King could kick the crap out of Adon though. Ever since Adon beat Sagat, he stopped training because he thought he had already become the best at Muay Thai and that he didn't need to train anymore. Overconfident fellow he is. Posted by Siegfried on 03:16:2002 10:17 PM: About Ukyo and Hibiki: The style is called iaido, and the techniques iaijutsu. I've seen it listed as "iai style" as well. I practiced it for a while - it's basically about drawing your sword and cutting in one movement, never returning to a standard stance until you've cut down all opponents. So instead of: draw sword, into basic stance, raise sword, cut, back to stance, raise sword, cut, etc, it's: draw and cut, turn and cut, turn and cut. Much more efficient if you ask me ^_^. It looks really good too, even if you're just a beginner like me. Everything is just kata though, no free fighting - for obvious reasons. Also, Ukyo's weapon IS the Drying Pole. He was based on Musashi's rival Genryu who used a similar style, was a ladies man and called his weapon that. He said that he could cut down swallows in flight - isn't there a move that refers to that? Haohmaru's and Ukyo's shared level in SS1 even refers to the place where Musashi and Genryu had their final duel. About Kobujutsu: Bujutsu means "martial arts" and "ko" probably refers to "family". Thus Kyo and Iori practise their own forms of the same basics. However, you're mistaking Kobujutsu for Kobojutsu which is something completely different and supposedly what Geese (and Todo?) practices. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:16:2002 11:26 PM: quote: Originally posted by Nakkurusu Am I the only one who notices this?: Guardian - Last Blade - Hero Team - O. New Faces Team Suzaku - Kagami Shinnosuke - Kyo Kusanagi - Chris Seiryuu - Kaede - Benimaru - Shermie Byakko - Naoe Shigen - Goro Damion - Yashiro Nanasake Genbu - Genbu no Okina - ? - Goetinz So THAT's what the four lords of the Burning Dawn were named after! If you don't know what I'm talking about, play Tenchu 2 on the PS-X. You'll love it. Posted by Neo_Rasa on 03:16:2002 11:56 PM: Oh, but they have to. If not, they can never BE Samurai. Trust me they do by definition. "Samurai" in SS642 is referring to a generic alternate model for Sasaki who represents the group of samurais that are most definitely working with the government and following the code, etc. There was basically an alternate character like that for most of the cast that represented a generic person from their "circle" of friends. Hanzo had Iga Ninja, Oboro had "Oboro's Amazons," etc. Joe on Sagat's level? I dunno. If he was that good, he'd be better than Terry. Really, Sagat is a better rival for Ryu than even Ken is, and I don't know anyone else in the SF universe who can beat him other than Ryu and Bison, who by the way, should be an even match for Sagat by the time of SF2. He only lost to Adon because he fought in anger and rage, and he threw the fight when a revengeful Dan challenged him so that he wouldn't see history repeat itself. Terry Bogard probably is better than Sagat in the end. It's very difficult to compare characters from the two companies because the SNK characters are portrayed and described at a completely higher level of power. The best demonstration of this is the sheer gameplay mechanics and damage of Joe Higashi's super moves. The Screw Upper for one is something that would be at home in Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes. Also, what is Sagat's current position? Joe's been the undisputed Muay Thai champion in God only knows how many different circuits since 1991 and his only real defeat was while sparring against Andy Bogard. Again even Andy Bogard is far more powerful than most people give him credit for. The Capcom vs. SNK series' ratio system is also VERY inaccurate at describing these characters' level of power (on both sides). If it were accurate Geese Howard/Haohmaru/M. Bison (Psycho Power) would be ratio 4, Ryu/Ken Masters/Terry Bogard/Kyo Kusanagi/Iori Yagami/Joe Higashi and a few others would be ratio three, etc. Joe could give him a good fight, but in the end, I just don't see him winning. It's all in the titles man! Sagat = "The Emperor of Muay Thai!" Joe Higashi = "The Satan of Martial Arts!" I do believe King could kick the crap out of Adon though. Ever since Adon beat Sagat, he stopped training because he thought he had already become the best at Muay Thai and that he didn't need to train anymore. Overconfident fellow he is. I'm definitely certain now that King would beat Adon if Adon no longer actively trains. From what you've said I can only imagine how much MORE cocky Adon would get knowing that he's about to fight a woman too. Nevermind the fact that if he pulls an AoF maneuver on her he'll probably be murdered. However, you're mistaking Kobujutsu for Kobojutsu which is something completely different and supposedly what Geese (and Todo?) practices. SNK of Japan strikes again. The guardians in the Last Blade series are based on a Chinese legend so it doesn't surprise me that they would show up in an unrelated game at somepoint. Siegfried is also right on the money with the Musashi Miyamoto/Sasaki Kojiro Genryu information. Just about all of the Samurai Shodown characters are based on either real people or popular cultural tidbits/characters. The reason for the differing times of day in Ukyo/Haohmaru's background is because Musashi intentionally showed up to the island late for his duel with Genryu. Though he named the island after him in his honor after killing him. The designers of the first two Samurai Shodown games also worked on the characters for a certain anime you may have heard of called Ninja Scroll (and later Ninja Ressurrection). That's why you get quite a few character and plot parallels running through parts the two stories. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:17:2002 12:49 AM: The main reason why Sagat would probably beat Joe IMHO is because Sagat has gone through an epitome of sorts. Capcom takes epitomes very VERY seriously, it seems. When you are blinded by rage, you lose (See Sagat losing to Adon), but when you focus yourself and realize the good fight, you win (This is why Ryu is stated to be as powerful as Evil Ryu was back during SFA3, because of the epitome he went through in SFA3 when he gave up Satsu no Hadou. Sagat, too, has gone through this same type of epitome during SFA3). On a side note, to say that Joe is on Sagat's level is to say that Joe is on Ryu's level since they're supposed to be equal (as opposed to Ryu and Ken, where Ryu is slightly stronger). Neither Ryu nor Sagat have a clean win over each other and their rivalry is heavily implied that both are waiting for each other for their great great match, which usually in most storylines is an indication of equal power levels. This would also mean to say that Joe is on Bison's tier, even (generally considered to be on the same tier as present day Ryu and Sagat, who both have managed to reach Bison's level thanks to their focus and epitomes), which seems rather high for him That's just my interpretation of it, though A look at the generally accepted tiers of Street Fighter power levels shows that by Street Fighter 2's end (Sagat's last appearance), Sagat is considered by most to be WAY stronger than Adon... he's like... 2nd tier while Adon is 5th (which is also probably why King could beat his overconfident arse ^_~). Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:17:2002 02:15 AM: Terry Bogard probably is better than Sagat in the end. It's very difficult to compare characters from the two companies because the SNK characters are portrayed and described at a completely higher level of power. The best demonstration of this is the sheer gameplay mechanics and damage of Joe Higashi's super moves. The Screw Upper for one is something that would be at home in Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes. I think a lot of people tend to underestimate the Capcom characters a great deal, mainly because their stories aren’t as clearly expressed as SNK’s. And IMO, Terry’s one of the most overrated SNK characters ever. I don’t understand why everyone thinks he and Ryu are on the same level. Yes, Terry has beaten a lot of tough enemies like Geese, Krauser and Yamazaki, but given that he doesn’t constantly train to better himself, it’s hard for him to keep up with someone who’s life is almost entirely dedicated to fighting like Ryu. And besides, Terry has other important things to deal with in life than just fighting. At the most, I would put him above Ken, although Ken would actually be in the same level because he’s only a little worse than Ryu. Also, what is Sagat's current position? Joe's been the undisputed Muay Thai champion in God only knows how many different circuits since 1991 and his only real defeat was while sparring against Andy Bogard. Here are the first three tiers from Capcom’s listings for the most powerful Street Fighter characters, taken from Tiamat’s Street Fighter Plot Guide. Please note that the characters were placed in different tiers based on their most current state. Tier 1 Akuma, Gill, Oro - the strongest three out of the SFer's. They outclass everyone. These guys are in the godly range Tier 2 M. Bison, Sagat, Ryu, Satsui no Ryu (Evil Ryu), Q(hinted) - the next bunch Tier 3 Ken, Gen, Rose, Charlie, Urien Possible reasons why: Tier 1: This tier should be obvious. Gill, especially, with his fire and ice creation, angel powers, and his last boss towering status. Akuma should be, too. By SF3, the guy can destroy mountains, islands, and stay in deep ocean for crying out loud. And Oro beat Ryu in the SF3 tournament, and that was despite being handicapped by binding his arm. The guy's become powerful enough to live to 150 years or so... Tier 2: Another one which should be obvious. M. Bison might have been higher at first but he got weaker for SF2. Ryu and Sagat have already had their reasons stated. Q is just plainly supposedly incredibly powerful (mysterious characters are supposed to be that way), though it's highly doubtful that he's reached the ridiculously high status of Oro, Gill, or Akuma. Tiamat’s right. Ryu is better rivals with Sagat than he is with Ken because they’re both equal in terms of strength and power. Right now, Sagat is still waiting for Ryu to come and face him again. I imagine that Sagat hasn’t stopped training since they last met in Alpha 3, so they are pretty much on the same path. Also, neither one of them beat each other in a fair fight. Ryu managed to get a cheap shot at Sagat in SF1 when he was being given a hand; Sagat was pretty sure that he had already won the fight, so he stopped and decided to help him up. However, Ryu was so desperate to win, the Satsui No Hado awakened within him, and that’s when he hit Sagat with the Messatsu Gou Shoryu, a much more powerful version of the Dragon Punch that can potentially tear anyone apart. It wasn’t a regular Shoryuken, otherwise, he wouldn’t have put that scar on Sagat’s chest. So technically, Evil Ryu just awakened for a brief moment and smacked him, and at this time, Ryu succumbing to Satsui No Hado would be as powerful as the current Ryu in SF3:TS. I don’t think Ryu was aware of what he was doing because he was concerned about his behavior after he won. Ryu was beaten by Sagat in SFA3 because he was brainwashed by Bison’s Psycho Power and couldn’t fight by utilizing his own potential. This happened about the same time Ken and Sakura arrived to fight Bison, and coincidentally, both them and Sagat were looking for Ryu. Now for the remaining tier: Tier 3: The rest of the really powerful people. Rose is like, M. Bison lite. Ken is only slightly worse than Ryu (Ryu's gotten better than Ken over the years because Ken has other things to do besides fighting). Charlie invented the sonic boom and flashkick and supposedly was a really powerful fighter (which is why Guile admires him so much). Urien is also practically above human, even if quite toned down from Gill. Gen is also very powerful for reasons you should know by now. Heck, back during Alpha, most of these characters were probably 'top tier' (Gen couldn't even find anyone strong enough to kill him and was just as powerful as Akuma back then, if not more so), but because the majority of them either DIED or got married (for Ken), they got left behind by the time of SF3, apparently. Again even Andy Bogard is far more powerful than most people give him credit for. I agree, but the same can be said about most of the characters on the Capcom side. The Capcom vs. SNK series' ratio system is also VERY inaccurate at describing these characters' level of power (on both sides). If it were accurate Geese Howard/Haohmaru/M. Bison (Psycho Power) would be ratio 4, Ryu/Ken Masters/Terry Bogard/Kyo Kusanagi/Iori Yagami/Joe Higashi and a few others would be ratio three, etc. As I said earlier in the thread, Capcom did not intend to build the ratio system on their level of skill/power/stamina, etc. Instead, they sought to build it on the roles the characters play from their respective series. Ratio 1- secondary characters Ratio 2- main characters, fighters of equal strength/skill Ratio 3- boss characters Ratio 4- hidden, highly destructive characters If the ratio system was built on power, some of the weaker characters like Zangief and Blanka just wouldn’t be there. A tier list would have to expand beyond just 4 Ratio points. Continued…… Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:17:2002 02:17 AM: So if I wanted to make a tier list of CvS2’s top characters, it would probably look something like this, with the exclusion of Shin Akuma and God Rugal. Feel free to share your disagreements if you notice something weird, which I doubt there is any in this list. Tier 1: Akuma, Morrigan, Haohmaru, Nakoruru, Hibiki Tier 2: Ryu, Kyo, Iori, Sagat, M.Bison, Geese, Rugal Tier 3: Ken, Terry, Rock, Yamazaki, Ryo, Benimaru, Joe My reasons: Tier 1: As mentioned, Akuma’s already gained beyond-human statistics through Satsui No Hado, enabling him to destroy mountains, islands, and stay in the deep depths of an ocean. Morrigan’s obviously a demon with beyond-human attributes, so she should be above just about every SF and KOF character. Haohmaru, Nakoruru and Hibiki is a no-brainer. THEY USE SWORDS! And if that’s not intimidating enough, Haohmaru’s tornado attack, Nakoruru’s bird Mamahaha and her ability to spiritually heal herself, and Hibiki’s long range slashes should leave even the most experienced martial artists baffled. Tier 2: Ryu goes under Akuma due to his potential, and Sagat makes a better rival for him than Ken because they’re both nearly equal in strength and power. CvS2’s M.Bison is mainly the same as his SF2 counterpart, except he has the Bison Warp back and his Knee Press Nightmare ends differently. Kyo and Iori are definitely the best KOF characters due to their family bloodlines. Geese would be at the same level as Bison, so I believe Ryu and Sagat would stand a fare chance against him. Rugal COULD be better than both bosses, but I don’t think he’d actually be a worthy match for Akuma, so he stays here. Now this may have come to you as a surprise that Ryu is in the same tier with Kyo and Iori, but Ryu is no ordinary “normal” fighter. He’s still trying to overcome Satsui No Hado, even though he’s matured enough to keep his focus away from it. He did well enough to impress Oro, which is why Oro chooses to train him as his successor. I think that says a lot about Ryu’s true potential. At some point, Ryu will inevitably gain enough strength to fight Akuma in a long-awaited death match. Akuma wouldn’t just wait on Ryu for nothing. Kyo may be the most powerful in the KOF records, but the Kusanagi flames don’t make him invincible and he certainly doesn’t own Ryu or Sagat for free. I notice that many SNK fans overestimate his abilities based on the fact that it was the Orochinagi that stunned Orochi long enough for Chizuru to seal him away. I don’t think that alone makes Kyo the most powerful. That was just part of an ancient legend. Back when the original Orochi came in the form of an eight-headed serpent, it was Yagami who gave him eight barrels of wine and made him drunk, Kusanagi who struck him (I think it was with a spear), and Kagura (I heard it was a different name during this time period, but I can’t remember.) who sealed him away. So if Kyo had flames, but wasn’t born a Kusanagi, he wouldn’t be able to do shit against Orochi, no matter how powerful his attacks may be. The same goes for Iori. And if it weren’t for Benimaru and Daimon’s help in KOF ’94, Rugal would’ve buried Kyo in concrete a long time ago. Sorry, but that's just my take on it. I'm not downing Kyo. I'm just saying he's SNK's rightful equivalent to Ryu, and that his past accomplishments should not easily excuse him to be above him. Tier 3: This league is nothing to scoff at, since it IS possible for these guys to beat the above tier characters. They could put up a good fight with them at the very least. Ken’s only slightly worse than Ryu, so he belongs here with Terry and Ryo. Rock is at the young Terry’s level during Mark of the Wolves, and he might become more powerful as he gains experience over time as well. Yamazaki can almost beat Terry; he could do well enough to leave him in pretty critical condition. Benimaru and Joe are up here for the reasons you’ve listed. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:17:2002 02:42 AM: The designers of the first two Samurai Shodown games also worked on the characters for a certain anime you may have heard of called Ninja Scroll (and later Ninja Ressurrection). That's why you get quite a few character and plot parallels running through parts the two stories. Are you serious?! Damn, I always thought Ninja Scroll's characters had a lot in common with the SS characters, but I didn't think they were actually created by the same people. That's nice to know, though. Posted by Darkstalker on 03:17:2002 03:38 AM: I disagree with the tierieng for CvS 2. Here's mine (no G.Rugal and S.Gouki): Tier 1-Akuma (duh), Rugal, Geese, Bison, O.Iori, E.Ryu, Yamazaki, Nakoruru Reasons: The boss characters are pretty obvious, and Yamazaki supposedly kicked the asses out of a lot of people in Fatal Fury 3 (including Terry). Nakoruru...too lazy to explain. Tier 2-Ryu, Terry, Joe, Ken, Kyo, Iori, Ryo, Haohmaru, Kyosuke, Vice Reasons: Again, pretty obvious, with most of the heroes bunched together. Vice is there just because she's of Orochi blood. And isn't Kyosuke on the same level as Batsu, making him the best of the rest? Tier 3 and below-Everyone else Posted by Siegfried on 03:17:2002 11:43 AM: Haohmaru and Nakoruru are at tier 3 in that list, and Hibiki shouldn't even be on it. Okay, Haohmaru may be tier 2. That they have swords have nothing to do with tier - if so Ken would be a tier 1 if he took up a sword. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:17:2002 02:25 PM: Haohmaru and Nakoruru are at tier 3 in that list, and Hibiki shouldn't even be on it. Okay, Haohmaru may be tier 2. That they have swords have nothing to do with tier - if so Ken would be a tier 1 if he took up a sword. Don't get me wrong. I don't really believe using a sword against the average martial artist automatically puts you above the rest. Wielding a sword won’t be of any help unless you know how to use it. Sodom use to fight with a pair of katanas in Final Fight, and he still does in SFA3 when you play him in X-Ism, but he just didn't make the cut in Capcom's official SF tiers; not even the fifth tier. I don’t know why he ditched them, but Sais are more to his liking anyway. And if weapon-wielders were designed to outclass everyone in a fighting game, Rolento would be the most dangerous and unfair opponent of them all. Given these circumstances, why wouldn’t he be with those unlimited knives and grenades? Hell, he’s so merciless that he often calls out members of his troops to gang up on his victims. He never seems to go anywhere without a chopper for back-up so that when he feels like it, he can catch his adversary with a wire and hang them immediately when a soldier comes down with a hook and chain. (This is in fact, true. El Gato comes down to assist Rolento from a helicopter when doing the “Take No Prisoners”. Rolento even has a super in Final Fight Revenge where he jumps up there and guns you down.) Rolento looks as if he has more means than necessary to even knock somebody out, yet somehow his name isn’t on Capcom’s tier list. “Hmmmmmm, does that seem normal?” Truth be told, Sodom and Rolento aren’t tiered because they haven’t really done anything to prove their worth. They had the advantage, but they failed to eliminate Guy in Final Fight, and even Guy made it on Tier 5 in that list. *For those who don’t know, Guy split up with Cody and Haggar during the course of that game and they didn’t meet until they finally reached Belgar.* Plus, Sodom and Rolento never have beaten any of the SF characters, so in a sense, they just aren’t qualified to be Tier 1 if they haven’t been directly involved with the SF storyline. I don’t think they’ve trained as much as they should because they were too caught up in recruiting members for their purposes. One reason I put Haohmaru in the first tier is because, unlike Sodom, Haohmaru is a true master of the blade, is far more experienced, and he possesses enough power to throw a tornado, (a projectile that’d probably be as damaging to the environmental surroundings as Joe’s Screw Upper, if not more ). I’d be inclined to believe he’s at Tier 2 without the sword, but that is a major part of his fighting style, such as the case with Billy Kane’s stick being a major part of his, and we know Geese doesn’t think of Billy as a weakling despite how many times he's lost. Another reason is that in a crossover between Capcom and SNK, Samurai Shodown characters would most likely be good competitors against Darkstalkers characters. And think of it this way, if Haohmaru was just as skilled a fighter as Geese or Bison, who would have a better chance at winning? Even the smallest mistake can turn the tide in a battle, and one false move against a master swordsman will result in getting your torso split in two, stabbed, etc. Come to think of it, Haohmaru's fought at a more serious level of combat against tougher opponents, and he's a follower of Bushido, so I can’t imagine him ever wanting to fight a man without a deadly weapon or a powerful source of magic, unless of course that man could hold his own with beyond-human attributes like Akuma. What Nakoruru lacks in sword training, she makes up for with her spiritual connection with nature, in that she can utilize to heal herself. Mamahaha’s also one sick bird too. But then again, she's not really a fighter at heart, so maybe she is at Tier 3. And about Hibiki: Heh, heh, nevermind! I just remembered she doesn't have enough experience to fight with the likes of Morrigan and Haohmaru, so I would put her at Tier 5 at best. She's pretty good for a beginner. Posted by Sho 2 on 03:17:2002 07:03 PM: My Ranking: includes S.O. Akuma and G. SoH Rugal Tier 0(Since they are techinally not canon): Shin Orochi Akuma, God Rugal Tier 0: This is no-brainer. If regular Akuma can destroy mountains, stay underwater, and etc., and the regular Shin Akuma can do much more (remember that Akuma IS Shin Akuma holding back). Then, a Shin Akuma with Orochi powers is a God (Practically Orochi without the immortality). Rugal, even with his avaricous manners towards power, could well kick anyone's @$$ with enhanced speed, a teleport, and the newfound knowledge of the Raging Demon. Thank *insert deity here* that these guys aren't "real"!! Tier 1: Akuma, Morrigan, Rugal, Orochi Iori Tier 1: Akuma has already been explained. Morrigan is a demon(ess?) who was already as powerful as the three rulers of her world but then had her power sealed. However, the seal still left as powerful as the regular Akuma (probaly Shin Akuma), Oro, and Gill. Rugal is here because he is part Orochi (sure he'll die), already has immense potential, and now has the ability to steal an opponent's power and techinques. Orochi Iori is here simply because his magical power is already powerful and this boosted it. Plus his extreme speed and physical power make him a psychotic murderer (Well, more so LOL). Tier 2: Ryu, Sagat, M.Bison, Yamazaki, Vice, Iori, Kyo, Haohmaru Tier 2: Ryu has already been explained as has Sagat. Bison seems to be powerful but would probably near the bottom since he doesn't have the Psycho Drive anymore. Yamazaki has always been powerful and is the only Orochi alive with full "control" of his powers. Vice is the same way, except she does exhibit symptoms of the Orochi power. Kyo and Iori have already been explained but noting that they might have been more powerful if they would have had to develop the flames. However, they just wouldn't have been able to stop Orochi. And finally Haoahmaru is an accomplished/master swordsmen and he should have devestating close range and long range attacks. But I put him at the bottom because he depends on his sword and while that doesn't make him any kind of wimp, he will be in BIG TROUBLE if his sword was knocked away and/or destroyed in a fight. I would go into Tier 3 and probably beyond but I'm really tired of typing here. P.S. I know that this is and SNk Thread but can does anyone have FF Anthalogy (I'm a horrible speller sometimes.), the one with FF5 and FF3/6. Thanks. Posted by Sho 2 on 03:17:2002 09:56 PM: It's me again. I was going to do Tier 3 and on but I remembered I had questions on Nakoruru and Rimururu: 1. How did Nak get selected for protecting nature? Is her sister (Rimururu) chosen too? 2. Where did Rimururu's crystal come from? 3. Is Mamahaha really a hawk? Where does the wolf come from in her Bust form? Is the wolf the "evil" version of Mamahaha? 4. What is their family name? P.S. I finally have a new sig (evil sings)!! Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:17:2002 10:31 PM: Wow, I never really saw Vice as very powerful, myself. Sure, she might be Orochi clan and display a little Orochi power, but all she really did in the storyline was tag along with Rugal for a bit, help brainwash Saisyu, then got slaughtered along with Mature by Iori's riot of blood. Really not much, there Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:18:2002 02:10 AM: Damn I didn't realize Capcom gave Sagat so much respect still. Looking at this information, I think Sagat would defeat Joe in a very close fight though I also think Joe CAN conceivably defeat him. It's now become one of the fights I'd like to see the most out of all the potential Capcom vs. SNK rivalries. Despite SSFII Sagat being the most current, in my mind I'm always thinking of the washed up/defeated Sagat of the late Alpha era. Grenade Falcon you're right about some of the SNK characters seeming more powerful because they're better realized, though. I mean, to be honest I can't stand Terry Bogard AT ALL but I still think he's a good match for Ryu. He's an extremely powerful and experienced fighter who trains less often because he's reached the epitome/ultimate level that so many characters strived to reach in their careers. Even the older Terry Bogard presented in Garou: Mark of the Wolves maintains this overall level of ability and inner strength. Hell he's your final boss if you play as a bad guy in Wild Ambition. Are you serious?! Damn, I always thought Ninja Scroll's characters had a lot in common with the SS characters, but I didn't think they were actually created by the same people. Dead serious. It gets REALLY blatant in Ninja Ressurrection because that one is practically a messed up retelling of the original Samurai Shodown storyline. I don't overestimate Kyo's power, but it has to be taken into account that he is literally able to make fire materialize, etc. Plus Kyo IS one of the characters who does train constantly (it's one of the reasons he never has time to finish high school ) and while he's a slacker at WORK, he doesn't consider fighting work and takes it very seriously. Whenever I try to think of it I see Kyo coming out on top of a lot of other opponents (despite how much I hate him) simply because he doesn't use ki but instead is literally creating flames out of nowhere and can very easily control them. The kind of damage open flame can do to flesh in a short amount of time/exposure compared to ki and energy that has physical impact on your bone structure instead of literally doing immediate damage to the flesh and muscles of your body makes a big difference IMO. As a comparison consider how when breaking a bone, you sometimes won't even know it's broken/won't even notice til several days later in some instances. Have extreme heat reach a ligament or muscle burned up on the other hand... It's like pitting strong person against a slightly weaker person who has a flame thrower. Kyo isn't unstoppable but I'm of the opinion that he is a VERY powerful force to be reckoned with when compared to other human characters (from either company). As another example of his power take a look at the kind of damage his Shingo, his STUDENT, can do when he doesn't have the Kusanagi flames OR project ki beyond his own body. Oh in addition to what you said about Haohmaru, I think he like, cuts Mount Fuji in half in one of the storylines. Anyways I'll post a little later with my thoughts on the tierings you've all put up (and post my own as well) in a little bit, I need to give it some more thought. Posted by Lantis on 03:18:2002 03:58 AM: Sho 2: 1) It's not like Nakoruru and Rimururu were chosen in a certain way of fate...The Ainu people make it their sacred duty to protect nature. There is no hierachy/familiar stuff like the Kusanagis or Yagamis. Nakoruru and Rimururu do it because they feel it is neccesary for them to do something about nature's suffering. 2) Konril's origin is not known. Maybe it was a "gift of nature" to Rimururu, so it could aid her in her nature protecting task. 3) No, Mamahaha and Shikuruu (not Silkou, as most people call the wolf) are two separate animals. They both happen to be Nakoruru's pets. A very strong point to prove that Mamahaha and Shikuruu are two different animals, is that in Nakoruru's SS 4 ending, she appears with both her animals by her side. 4) They have no family name, as far as I know. Just like Haohmaru, Galford, and dozens of other fighting game characters. I'll also reserve my judgement on the tiers until Neo Rasa posts his. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:18:2002 06:27 AM: Before I get to updating my tier list, I have one more question. How good are Yuri and Kim Kaphwan? Posted by Darkstalker on 03:18:2002 06:35 AM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon Before I get to updating my tier list, I have one more question. How good are Yuri and Kim Kaphwan? As far as I know, Yuri isn't all that great, probably above average among the SNK-ers. Kim is quite powerful, holding up his own in both FF and KOF, so I think he's around Andy, Robert, Joe etc. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:18:2002 11:10 AM: For those who are interested, here is the complete SF tiering: Tier 1 Akuma, Gill, Oro - the strongest three out of the SFer's. Tier 2 M. Bison, Sagat, Ryu, Satsui no Ryu (Evil Ryu), Q(hinted) Tier 3 Ken, Gen, Rose, Charlie, Urien Tier 4 Guile, Chun-Li, Hugo, Vega Tier 5 Adon, Guy, Sakura, Cody, Balrog, Cammy, Zangief, Dhalsim, T Hawk, Alex And the possible reasons for the last two tiers now mentioned, as was said by Tiamat: “Tier 4: This would be the tier for other characters that are really important to the storyline and participated in some great fights during it, I suppose. With the exception of Hugo, it should be rather self-explanatory. Chun-Li is a pretty main character in SFA2 and 3 and Guile is the official main character of SF2 (As for why they're still lower than Tier 3, Guile and Chun-Li really haven't been training THAT much since SFA3. Guile gave up fighting after SF2, also. Ryu and Sagat surpassed that tier because they're obsessed and such, and Ken still does train a lot, too. It's hard to keep up with people who's lives and profession are nearly entirely fighting). Vega is supposed to be more powerful than Cammy, I imagine (another reason why I believe he threw that fight with Cammy in SFA3) as well as a top assassin and a boss. As for Hugo, Hugo survived Ryu's shin shoryuken without being knocked out, which, storyline wise, is quite an amazing feat. “Tier 5: Everyone else who managed to cut it. Guy might be a Bushin master, but storyline wise, he never got to take down any of the big boys, I suppose (like how storyline wise, he never fought Bison). He's another one that got left behind after he went missing. Alex was the champion of the SF3 tournament. Cammy is above all the other Dolls and is a top assassin. And Sakura is simply RIDICULOUSLY gifted. The girl learned ansatsuken techniques simply by WATCHING them for crying out loud. She can do chi-manipulation on Ken's level during SFA3 and she hasn't even gotten a real trainer yet and is ridiculously young. That's amazing.” Why Adon, Dhalsim and Zangief are there is beyond me. I guess it has something has to do with their current level of strength/spirit/skill. Balrog’s understandably a brute, being Bison’s shield and all. Cody might be there because he was partly responsible for the fall of Mad Gear in the first Final Fight, although now, I doubt he’d get any better if all he ever does is wander around looking for scrubs at random to beat up. Alright, now before I show you the update to my CvS2 tier list, I’d like to comment on Sho 2’s Tier 0. Tier 0(Since they are technically not canon): Shin Orochi Akuma, God Rugal Tier 0: This is no-brainer. If regular Akuma can destroy mountains, stay underwater, and etc., and the regular Shin Akuma can do much more (remember that Akuma IS Shin Akuma holding back). Then, a Shin Akuma with Orochi powers is a God (Practically Orochi without the immortality). Rugal, even with his avaricous manners towards power, could well kick anyone's @$$ with enhanced speed, a teleport, and the newfound knowledge of the Raging Demon. Thank *insert deity here* that these guys aren't "real"!! Actually, Akuma never holds back when he trains, only when fighting a weak opponent. Destroying a mountain with a single punch does require him to give it his all and then some. But you’re right about one thing, though: Akuma with Orochi power would definitely outclass the Four Heavenly Kings, since he’s considerably in the same rank as they are to begin with. Only problem is that he is not of Orochi blood, therefore it will reject itself from Akuma and nearly kill him. Rugal with Satsui No Hado does indeed sound scary, but at most, I think it would bump him at least one tier up. Even with those newly gained techniques, Rugal would never outmatch Akuma because he hasn’t trained enough to the point where he can achieve god-like abilities. Akuma didn’t learn to break mountains and stay underwater for nothing. As much as I like these bosses, there are a couple of reasons why they can’t exist, other than the fact that they don’t co-exist in the same universe. In the case of Akuma, he would never try to obtain another source of power to become stronger because that would go against everything he believes in. If Akuma ever wound up with Orochi power in his veins, I don’t think he’d really want to exploit it the way he does in CvS2, or then again, I could be wrong about this. Perhaps that SNK portrait of Shin Akuma indicates that the Orochi power made him go crazy. And second, if you’re caught in the Shun Goku Satsu unprepared, you’re DEAD! No last breaths, no opportunities to get a lucky shot before you go to hell, no last words, nothing. Rugal would never have stayed alive for a moment from it. In the case of Rugal, he would never touch Akuma in the first place. And second, as far as I know, there is no evidence in any SNK game that Rugal could absorb moves from other fighters. There is no proof that he ever met Krauser or Geese, so it’s likely that he has the Repuken and the Kaiser Wave because he saw them being done in previous KOF tournaments and mimicked them. He must’ve been using Hybrid Martial Arts years before Goenitz infused him with Orochi power. Now I do know it’s possible for the Four Heavenly Kings to absorb moves in that fashion, but they are of true Orochi blood and the most powerful of the eight members of the Orochi clan. Rugal doesn’t fit that criteria. Iori and Leona don’t either, because they obviously don’t have moves from other fighters, much less the ability to steal them. Therefore, Rugal stealing Akuma’s powers could be a misrepresentation of his implied capabilities. And also, Satsui No Hado is not some power you can just steal. As was mentioned by Clay in the SF thread, it is directly related to philosophy and the fundamentals of life. Satsui No Hado is centered around one’s drive and focus on fighting, one’s potential, and negative emotions (if you can call the desire to win at all costs and becoming the greatest that). This is why SnH would have a much greater hold on Akuma and Ryu than any other fighter. SnH could either bring you power or condemn you. For Akuma, SnH represents everything he believes in. For Ryu, it could only hinder him from finding his true potential. Ryu’s still struggling with this because he isn’t quite sure which path he’ll go yet. Now, my tiers for most powerful fighters, CvS2 Tiers-Updated Tier 1: Akuma, Morrigan, Haohmaru, Satsui no Ryu (Evil Ryu), ROB Iori Tier 2: Ryu, Sagat, Kyo, Iori, Vice, M.Bison, Geese, Rugal, Yamazaki Tier 3: Ken, Terry, Ryo, Athena, Benimaru, Nakoruru, Rock, Kim Tier 4: Vega, Guile, Chun-Li, Mai Tier 5: Sakura, Yuri, Cammy, Maki, Kyosuke, King, Hibiki, Dhalsim, Zangief, Raiden, Chang, Balrog, Todo Everyone else would fall under Tier 6, except Dan, who’s so weak and pathetic that he deserves a tier of his own… Tier 7! My reasons: Tier 1: Akuma, Morrigan and Haohmaru have already been explained. I put Evil Ryu in this tier because if Ryu has greatly improved since the Satsui no Hado last awakened within him in SF1, one could imagine how much more powerful Evil Ryu would be if it ever awakened again in Ryu’s current state. Ryu may have already reached Tier 1 status if this should happen, but he does not want to accomplish anything that involves giving into SnH, so it looks like it’ll take awhile longer for Ryu to reach Akuma’s expectations. Iori in the Riot of Blood, I don’t think I need to explain. It’s all there in KOF ’97. Tier 2: Vice and Yamazaki have been moved to this tier when I learned how powerful they truly are. They haven’t done much, but they can manifest Orochi power quite well. Tier 3: Athena’s here for reasons given by Siegfried and Lantis. She SHOULD be up there with Kyo and Iori, but she lacks the experience. She could conceivably give Ken, Joe, Benimaru and Terry a good fight, but it’s unknown if she’d actually beat them. And Kim is as good a fighter as the other FF heroes. Tier 4: As mentioned earlier, Guile and Chun-Li haven’t trained that much since SFA3. Vega is a top assassin and boss. Based on what I’ve read about Mai, I don’t believe she’s as good as Andy. If not due to her fighting abilities, it’s because she tends to be air-headed and reckless with her actions, which is why I feel Chun-Li would have a slight edge over her in a fight. Mai’s still talented though, and of course she’s got the power to back up her taunting. Tier 5: Sakura learned Ansatsuken moves just by watching them, and her chi-manipulation was equal to that of Ken’s in SFA3. She doesn’t even have a trainer! That’s incredible for a girl her age. If Yuri is only above average as Darkstalker claims, she should at least be a good match for Sakura. I think her years of training as a Kyokugen student gives her experience that matches Sakura’s natural powers. Cammy was a top assassin and the primary doll of Shadaloo, but I’m not sure if her skills have improved by SSF2X. Maki would really be a good replacement for Guy if he never returns. She never had any involvement with the SF storyline up until SFA3 Advance. When it’s released, we might see if she meets up with Guy and challenges him. Until then, her helping role in FF2 will be the only thing that really paid off. As far as I know, no Rival Schools character has had ANYTHING to do with SF whatsoever, despite the series existing in the same universe. Kyosuke may be one of the best characters in RS, but there’s no real way to compare his skills with the SF characters without some sort of relation to them. In short, he isn’t exactly on par with them, except maybe Sakura. If Adon could be in this tier, then so can King! We’ve already gone over why. Hibiki may be inexperienced, but she’s very good as a beginning sword fighter. If she wasn’t afraid of killing, I’d probably place her above everyone else in the tier. I could definitely do that with an Hibiki gone insane, though she might prevent that from happening. If Zangief could be in this tier, then so could Raiden. Pardon me if you don’t like the guy, but Raiden vs. Zangief to me is such a good rivalry. I imagine Chang is on Zangief’s level too, although in a fight, he’d pretty much win unfairly if Choi were there to assist him. Todo seems to be a rather undeveloped character, but I don’t believe he’s any bad, considering he’s the master of his own family art. Now the people who didn’t make the cut: Tier 6: Yun, E.Honda, Rolento, Eagle and Blanka look like good fighters, but they haven’t done anything to prove themselves, so they're about average. This goes to show you that looks can be deceiving, especially when you keep that famous, lame-ass Bruce Lee stereotype, Fei-Long in mind. He isn’t important. He’s just there! Please excuse me, Fei-Long fans, but I just hate him. Tier 7: He’s Dan. What more should I say? Disagreements? Comments? Let’s hear ‘em. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:18:2002 03:06 PM: Quickie note. Currently, as stated by Crawfish developers on their own official message boards, SFA3 Advance has no storyline planned for it due to memory limitations Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:18:2002 11:49 PM: Quickie note. Currently, as stated by Crawfish developers on their own official message boards, SFA3 Advance has no storyline planned for it due to memory limitations. I'm certain Capcom might add something more to SFA3 in their next "All about Capcom" entry. They personally asked Crawfish to put in Eagle, Maki and Yun, so there's still a good chance that it's canon. If Crawfish can't port any of the original storyline and throw in some dialogue for the new characters, then Capcom could still provide some explanations as to why they wanted them there. I'm hoping there's still going to be decent endings that briefly sum it all up, though. I don't care how little, even if they come in a few short paragraphs of text like in CvS2. Truthfully, I'm not worried the least about the story not turning out to be any good, so we'll just have to wait and see. Posted by Lantis on 03:19:2002 06:09 AM: Grenade Falcon: I would really lower Haohmaru down a tier. He just doesn't have any kind of exceptional power like Akuma, Morrigan, Evil Ryu, or ROB Iori...not even the fact that he supposedly cut Mt. Fuji in half (I have yet to see where this feat is portrayed). Even if he does deal with demons and badass samurais on a regular basis, that still doesn't make him all that different than Ryu. He just has refined swordmanship skills, and a true Zen philosophy, but not to the level of those you put in Tier 1. Lower him to Tier 2. He's just not that "inhumanly" powerful as most people tend to portray him. His techniques aren't that greatly powerful, either. Otherwise, I agree with you in almost everything else... Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:19:2002 11:12 PM: Lantis: Perhaps I will, but should I move Haohmaru down one tier, I'm definitely keeping him above the rest of the Tier 2 characters. The fact that he isn't an almighty deity is the only good reason that got me convinced, but still, Haohmaru simply has more experience under his belt than everyone else below Tier 1. No SF or KOF character could ever face the same demons and master samurai he fights in SS, except Ryu under SnH (as he'd be at this time) and Iori in the ROB. And from an anime standpoint, nobody should expect Haohmaru to win against any normal martial artist without killing him in the process. Anyway, thanks for your opinion. Posted by FistsofFury on 03:20:2002 02:37 AM: I'm about to throw a new discussion into this: K' and Kyo Which one do you think has more potential? Could K' ever become as strong as Kyo is......or stronger?? Do you think he will eventually be able to weild his Kusanagi powers as well as Kyo does?? I'll add my $.02 later Posted by D-Force on 03:20:2002 04:53 AM: As far as I know, I believe K' has more potential than Kyo b/c of the many ways he could possibly control the Kusanagi flames plus K' is still a little green in learning how to control the flames without the use of his special glove, but then again, there are still a lot of techniques that neither one of them has learned. Magatama consists of a lot of techniques and I'm quite sure not even Kyo has learned/mastered them all. Since Kyo has mostly done everything he's wanted to do, he probably won't be as focused as K' to learn new ways to wield the flames, thus my conclusion that K' pretty much has more potential. Posted by Darkstalker on 03:20:2002 07:32 AM: Well, I think K' has more potential, since I don't think he's been wielding flames as long as Kyo has, and yet he's still pretty strong (up there with Terry and Ryo at least). Posted by Goku-EX on 03:20:2002 08:29 AM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon I'm certain Capcom might add something more to SFA3 in their next "All about Capcom" entry. They personally asked Crawfish to put in Eagle, Maki and Yun, so there's still a good chance that it's canon. If Crawfish can't port any of the original storyline and throw in some dialogue for the new characters, then Capcom could still provide some explanations as to why they wanted them there. Eagle and Maki could fit in quite nicely, but Yun can't. After all, he is Gen's grandson and SF3 doesn't take place until 8 years later. I think it's an excuse to add characters while reusing their sprites and for fanservice as well. Anyway, I have a question. Is Geese's Deadly Rave really his own variation of the Kyokugen style Ryuko Ranbu? I read something about this a long time ago and I never got around to verifying it. Confirmation here would be good enough for me. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:20:2002 11:01 AM: Eagle and Maki could fit in quite nicely, but Yun can't. After all, he is Gen's grandson and SF3 doesn't take place until 8 years later. I think it's an excuse to add characters while reusing their sprites and for fanservice as well. First, Gen is not Yun's grandfather. He's just an old friend of his father who agreed to train Yun and Yang after he died. Second, I think I've heard this from the same Crawfish message boards once, but Yun's either just a weeeee little boy in that game, or he's just dreaming about what it'd be like to fight people back in the early days, thus making his whole story a joke like they've done with Alpha Cody and Guy in FF1. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:20:2002 12:14 PM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon Eagle and Maki could fit in quite nicely, but Yun can't. After all, he is Gen's grandson and SF3 doesn't take place until 8 years later. I think it's an excuse to add characters while reusing their sprites and for fanservice as well. First, Gen is not Yun's grandfather. He's just an old friend of his father who agreed to train Yun and Yang after he died. Second, I think I've heard this from the same Crawfish message boards once, but Yun's either just a weeeee little boy in that game, or he's just dreaming about what it'd be like to fight people back in the early days, thus making his whole story a joke like they've done with Alpha Cody and Guy in FF1. That was me that said that on the Crawfish Message boards, and it's just conjecture on my part and absolutely nothing else. ^^ Age wise, Yun would only be 11 years old tops during SFA3. That's too young to logically be in the game at the age his sprite is portrayed in. Posted by Lantis on 03:20:2002 04:05 PM: Goku-EX: I don't think the Deadly Rave is a variation of the Ryuko Ranbu, just an original attack patented by Geese. In any case, I would compare it to Krauser's own Gigatech Cyclone DM from the RB series (which also takes the complicated button presses from the Deadly Rave)...there goes that strange relation between Geese and Krauser again... But if you ask me, they have nothing to do with each other. Their finishers are also not alike, which kind of throws the theory around... As for K', yes, he is supposed to be destined to become stronger than Kyo, but I don't think he has done enough to deserve such title. Sure, he could have overcame several NESTS agents, but nothing in comparison to an Orochi or the like. Besides, Kyo's character is no longer being developed (Kyo hasn't done anything spectacular after defeating the Orochi), and K' is just warming up...besides, he has already managed to control the Kusanagi flames at the end of KOF 2000 (as shown in the Hero Team's ending in KOF 2K when he rips his glove off, the reason why I think he keeps it in KOF 2001 is because he can't get used to living without it, which could be a reasonable excuse for SNK's laziness to redraw his sprite, kind of like the Ryu/Ken SFA 3 syndrome). I would definetly put K' in Terry and Ryo's league, for sure, if not a bit above them. Posted by Lantis on 03:20:2002 04:08 PM: Oh, and kudos to anyone who finally rated this thread as 5 stars. We are doing our best effort to keep it there! Posted by tsj76 on 03:20:2002 06:09 PM: One answer and a few questions. Regarding Bushido: You can't really do this on a 2d fighter. The code of bushido is very very stict. Can't hit a person while they are backpedaling. But then too, you aren't supposed to backpedal either. Get my drift. So you can say in the storyline that a warrior follows the code of Bushido, but you can't implement it into a fighting game where everyone does not. That's why Bushido Blade 1 was so hard to play, and so unpopular. It's too much to remember to do and not to do and it takes a lot of the fun out of it. Especially for people who are used to "Just rush that...." you know the rest. Questions: 1. When did Hohamaru get demi-god status? 2. What's this Shin Orochi Akuma? Where did the Orochi come from? Or is that just a title of respect givin to Shin Akuma by SNK fans because he's as powerful as they are? 3. I was raised on Capcom. So I have a few questions about SNK as a company. When was its heyday? I remember Fatal Fury vaugely. I rented for a week when I was smaller. But I don't really remember seeing any SNK games in arcades. It was all SF (and Samurai Showdown-sometimes). 4. And just out of curiosity. Given the storylines, do you think Capcom gave the SNK characters a fair shot in CvS2? Because I hear lots of SNK fans complaining about how the game is really unbalanced toward SNK. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:20:2002 06:42 PM: Only in very rare occassions does and SHOULD storyline EVER affect gameplay balance. So how powerful a character is, storyline-wise, shouldn't be a factor in how powerful they are when you play as them in the game most of the time. That's just dumb, I think, cause in the end, these are fighting games where balance is imperative and not storyline games ^^ Otherwise, Capcom would just make playable Akuma slaughter everyone in terms of playbalance and SNK would do the same with their nonboss characters who are supposed to be above the others, storyline-wise. Just imagine Street Fighter 3 if Ryu and Ken FAR outclassed everyone else in terms of EVERYTHING when you played as them... Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:21:2002 02:08 AM: One answer and a few questions. Regarding Bushido: You can't really do this on a 2d fighter. The code of bushido is very very stict. Can't hit a person while they are backpedaling. But then too, you aren't supposed to backpedal either. Get my drift. So you can say in the storyline that a warrior follows the code of Bushido, but you can't implement it into a fighting game where everyone does not. That's why Bushido Blade 1 was so hard to play, and so unpopular. It's too much to remember to do and not to do and it takes a lot of the fun out of it. Especially for people who are used to "Just rush that...." you know the rest. Of course with a 2d fighting game, that's just common sense. If Haohmaru had to follow that code EXACTLY as it is in CvS2, he basically wouldn't have an opportunity to attack. No game should be affected that greatly by story elements. Bushido Blade 2 had the honor system taken out for quite a few reasons other than fans not liking it. For the most part, they couldn't get the computer to follow those rules. Then there are the two clan leaders you fight at the end: the Nakrukagami leader who possesses the ability to teleport and the Shainto leader who wears a full suit of body armor, which oddly enough doesn't protect his back. The honor system would've made things extremely difficult at this point, and I think Squaresoft agreed to this given those conditions. Questions: 1. When did Hohamaru get demi-god status? If you're referring to his position in my last tier update, please ignore it. It should now look like this: Tier 1: Akuma, Morrigan, Satsui no Ryu (Evil Ryu), ROB Iori Tier 2: Ryu, Sagat, Kyo, Iori, Vice, M.Bison, Geese, Rugal, Yamazaki, Haohmaru Tier 3: Ken, Terry, Ryo, Athena, Benimaru, Nakoruru, Rock, Kim Tier 4: Vega, Guile, Chun-Li, Mai Tier 5: Sakura, Yuri, Cammy, Maki, Kyosuke, King, Hibiki, Dhalsim, Zangief, Raiden, Chang, Balrog, Todo Haohmaru fights at a more serious level against more dangerous opponents than the SF and KOF characters, so that's why thought I should rate him as a Tier 1 character. I had to move him back down one tier because although he does have enough power to face Akuma and Morrigan, he is not some kind of demi-god himself, so he is generally the strongest of the Tier 2 characters IMHO. 2. What's this Shin Orochi Akuma? Where did the Orochi come from? Or is that just a title of respect givin to Shin Akuma by SNK fans because he's as powerful as they are? Sho 2 is referring to the Shin Akuma you fight in CvS2 that has gained Orochi power. The Orochi power comes from none other than Orochi himself, a godly creature who's purpose is to kill the human race and all life with it by absorbing the planet's ki. 3. I was raised on Capcom. So I have a few questions about SNK as a company. When was its heyday? I remember Fatal Fury vaugely. I rented for a week when I was smaller. But I don't really remember seeing any SNK games in arcades. It was all SF (and Samurai Showdown-sometimes). Can't quite remember when SNK came into business. I'm sure it was around the late '70s. 4. And just out of curiosity. Given the storylines, do you think Capcom gave the SNK characters a fair shot in CvS2? Because I hear lots of SNK fans complaining about how the game is really unbalanced toward SNK. I'll be blunt. Whoever says the SNK characters are at a disadvantage in this game because they play differently from their KOF counterparts is a friggin' moron. This is a Capcom game that plays under a totally different engine, what do they expect? Sure, the Capcom side has Sagat and Blanka, the only top tier characters in the game, but most of the upper middle tier consists of SNK characters. Iori is just deadly in A-Groove, I use him everytime. Kyo's also been greatly improved since CvS1 as I'm sure you've noticed by now. He doesn't have the Autogaurd on his chain punches, but if you ask me, I'm glad he doesn't because that helps balance things out. I think that if the SNK characters had all their KOF moves and combos intact, the game would be unbalanced towards Capcom, which would make playing CvS2 rather pointless, wouldn't you agree? It'd be like MvC2, where the majority of Capcom characters can't even hold their own against the Marvel characters. So yes, I'd say the SNK characters most definitely were given a fair shot in CvS2. How can anyone think otherwise? Posted by Lantis on 03:21:2002 04:12 AM: tsj76: In my eyes, I don't see Haohmaru as anything near "demi-god" status, in any case, he should be on the same level as Ryu and Kyo. He doesn't have any sort of "exceptional powers" (like the flames of Kyo and Iori, or the hidden "evil intent" of Ryu), and his techniques show that he isn't a fighter who uses "ki" attacks a lot, but rather is an accomplished swordsman who has managed to wield his sword like no other, thanks to his Zen philosophy and self-improvement attitude (kind of like Ryu's, but I think Haohmaru has a more relaxed view of life. He likes to drink sake, play practical jokes from time to time, and I almost never see the guy without that cocky smile of his). Of course, Haohmaru has had his share of demons and evil spirits to fight against (Amakusa Shiro Tokisada, Rashoujin Mizuki, Minazuki Zankuro, Yuga), and that pushes him up a notch in that he knows how to fight deities who naturally have a lot more power than your average Joe. They tried to push Haohmaru out of the "main SS character" scene once in SS 3, with Shizumaru, but by the looks of it, the plan failed (no wonder, since Shizumaru is a cowardly feminine boy, but supposedly he could host more power than Haohmaru himself, since he is the son of Zankuro, and demon blood runs in his veins). Now they're trying to do it again with Seishiro Kuki from SS: Warriors' Rage, but I don't see that coming.... I don't know why they would put "Orochi" in Shin Akuma...he's no different (or not that different as to say he's an Orochi per say) than any other version of Shin Akuma I've seen. Just because he absorbs the power in Rugal's blood (which has the power of Orochi in it, granted to him by Goenitz, one of the Four Heavenly Kings of Orochi) doesn't make him a full Orochi, just a tool like Rugal is. Orochi was a eight-headed dragon that appeared on Earth 1800 years ago (according to ancient Japanese yore) in order to rid the planet of the parasites that walk the face of the earth: the humans. As already mentioned in this thread, Orochi is like a self-protection mechanism that activates whenever the planet feels "threatened" and uses the power of the planet to destroy all humans. Hmmm...regarding SNK, you should ask our resident SNK guru Neo Rasa...but I do recall the RPG Crystalis and the action game Iron Tank (and the beat-em-up POW) from the NES era. Personally, those who say SNK characters are worth shit in CvS 2 are just envious and they would probably be happier if Kyo could beat the shit out of all the Capcom characters with his autoguard moves. Come on, we all know that, with a full move roster (with their properties intact), characters like Kyo and Terry would just own. And besides, it's a Capcom game. And Capcom wouldn't like to see SNK characters beating their cast, right? Although I think they did a pretty good job pairing things up. Kyo aint the same? Deal with it. I've lived with changes all the time, and I'm not complaining. The topic here is to ADAPT, not complain. Besides, I think these whinners have nothing to complain...Nakoruru single handedly dominated the game in CvS 1. Posted by Neo Rasa on 03:21:2002 04:17 AM: Haohmaru is a human being, but is based on Musashi Miyamoto, who is considered the greatest warrior who ever lived in Japan. Think Ryu only with personality and he's not afraid of killing people. 3. I was raised on Capcom. So I have a few questions about SNK as a company. When was its heyday? I remember Fatal Fury vaugely. I rented for a week when I was smaller. But I don't really remember seeing any SNK games in arcades. It was all SF (and Samurai Showdown-sometimes). SNK's been around since 1978. They've made MANY games but here are a few titles/serieses you've probably (hell that you SHOULD HAVE ) heard of: Alpha Mission Art of Fighting series Athena Baseball Stars series Crystalis Fatal Fury series Ikari Warriors series Iron Tank: The Invasion of Normandy King of Fighters series King of the Monsters series Metal Slug series P.O.W.: Prisoners of War Samurai Shodown series Vanguard Out of all of these, get Iron Tank: The Invasion of the Normandy on the NES. This is one of the most cutting edge games in existance at the time of its release and is one of the best NES games ever IMO. It's a port of the average arcade game TNK III. For many of Capcom and SNK's arcade to NES ports, upon realizing that there was no way to duplicate the graphics/fast action/sound of the arcade counterparts, changes were made to the game's overall structure. As a result Iron Tank has multiple weapon that you can equip as you wish in varying combinations, prisoners to rescue, one HUGE layout of Normandy beach with checkpoints instead of "level," and multiple paths to the end (and this was way before Castlevania III). All set to colorful graphics and non-stop explosions. It's a shame it doesn't currently get the respect it deserves. If you want to see the evolution of fighting games before your eyes play AoF1~2 and the Fatal Fury games. Fatal Fury Special in particular was released in 1993 and actually still has new stuff found out in it to this day. To put it in Capcom terms think of it as the SSFIIT of the Fatal Fury series except with better supers/sidestepping/counter moves/etc. Anyways enough of that. Obtain SNK games ASAP. If you want game recommendations/etc. just let us know what type of games you like and we'll have a few for you. They acheived much success on during the NES era with ports of their high-end arcade games, but they were definitely biggest just prior to and during Samurai Shodown II's release. Even "sell out" magazines like Game Informer rated Fatal Fury Special above the competition (this is competition that includes Mortal Kombat II and SSFII). The Samurai Shodown series was more popular in the US than in Japan at the time as well. Hype was everywhere for The King of Fighters '94, Art of Fighting 2 was released, etc. Thinks took a steep nosedive though after Fatal Fury 3 and Samurai Shodown III were released. Both games are oustanding from a graphical and sound standoint but many old favorites were dropped from the rosters and the gameplay systems and sprites were completely redone. SNK had no choice but to repeat the same mistake with AoF3 because the game had already been in development for a long time. Capcom brillianty followed suit and ended up with an identical blunder known as Street Fighter III: New Generation. Currently SNK titles like the Metal Slug series and Garou: Mark of the Wolves have large cult followings while The King of Fighters '98 remains the title with the most staying power. Other games like Sengoku III and The King of Fighters 2000 ended up being rushed more than they had to be and as a result lacked the impact on the market they were expected to have. The current upcoming roster from Playmore/SNK Neo Geo/Brezza/Eolith: The King of Fighters 2002 Rage of the Dragons KoF2K2 needs no explanation. Rage of the Dragons goes into beta testing at Neo Geo Land next week. It's said to be a head to head fighter and it's rumored that it will actually be a DOUBLE DRAGON head to head fighter. I have not found out yet if Playmore somehow acquired persmission to oversee a project like that or not but if it is things should be good. My expectations for the game are VERY high though. Excepting the King of Fighters series all of SNK's newer engines have had great graphics and attention to visual detail. If this new fighters has fourteen characters or less I'm expecting MotW calibur animation. If it doesn't deliver then I'll pray that the AES "market" of collectors stops beating a dead horse so that the MVS arcade board can finally be abandoned. 4. And just out of curiosity. Given the storylines, do you think Capcom gave the SNK characters a fair shot in CvS2? Because I hear lots of SNK fans complaining about how the game is really unbalanced toward SNK. I think this sentiment is due more to how in Match of the Millenium, most of the Capcom/SNK characters were given ALL their moves and in a few cases NEW moves. I will answer yes to your question storyline-wise, but again, they're too completely different storylines and if things were kept accurate, etc. the only characters in the game worth playing would be the ratio 2 and up SNK characters. There are still a few decisions that puzzle me such as the properties of Kyo's R.E.D. Kick and a few of Geese's moves but overall I think they did as good a job as they could in Capcom vs. SNK 2. I think SNK took the best approach to samurai "honor" in the Samurai Shodown games: "A samurai should fight with honor and dignity...But that doesn't mean you have to." "Imagine. Life as a samurai. To slice. To kill. TO SURVIVE!" "All creatures will die and all the things will be broken. That is the law of the samurai!" Edit: http://pong2.coolfreepage.com/presentacion/pic_007.jpg This is a Rage of the Dragons poster. I did some more poking around/interrogation and it seems it IS going to be a new Double Dragon fighting game. Posted by FistsofFury on 03:22:2002 12:48 AM: quote: Originally posted by D-Force As far as I know, I believe K' has more potential than Kyo b/c of the many ways he could possibly control the Kusanagi flames plus K' is still a little green in learning how to control the flames without the use of his special glove, but then again, there are still a lot of techniques that neither one of them has learned. Magatama consists of a lot of techniques and I'm quite sure not even Kyo has learned/mastered them all. Since Kyo has mostly done everything he's wanted to do, he probably won't be as focused as K' to learn new ways to wield the flames, thus my conclusion that K' pretty much has more potential. Nice points.....but why would K' have more drive than Kyo?? Would K' want to invest time and effort into learning Kusanagi techniques?? Does he even like the Kusanagi's? Or are you talking about K' forming his own style that suits the traits of his newfound powers?? quote: Originally posted by Darkstalker Well, I think K' has more potential, since I don't think he's been wielding flames as long as Kyo has, and yet he's still pretty strong (up there with Terry and Ryo at least). Yeah, K' is comparable in strength to Ryo and Terry. But I think Ryo or Terry would prevail in an outright fight simply because Ryo/Terry have more combat experience than K'........or do they?? Personally, I think K' dosen't have more potential than Kyo. Kyo, has more potential with his flames simply because they are his. The power to weild these flames is in his bloodline. K' is just working with implants, which may affect his ability to use his Kusanagi powers to full potential. However, from what I've heard K' was already somewhat strong before he got the Kusanagi flames....so it only augmented his present strength. But I don't think K' has really been tested....I mean if K' went up aganist Orochi would he have fared as well as Kyo? Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:22:2002 02:45 AM: Kyo had an advantage against Orochi because it was his destiny to beat Orochi. As Black Belt of 8-Bit Theatre put it, "Eh? Why in such a rush? If the good guys are destined to win, then technically we've won, already. No need to worry. It's just a matter of catching up to fate." Erm... yea. This is probably a pointless joke post. Feel free to ignore it. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:22:2002 06:29 AM: I just wish people would stop using Orochi's defeat as a way of measuring Kyo's power. It's not like he was the only one there. If it hadn't been for Iori holding him with the Eight Wine Cups, Kyo couldn't have attacked and allowed Chizuru to seal him away. And even if the Orochinagi made Orochi stagger for a brief moment, that doesn't mean Kyo's attacks are the most powerful. It just means that his Orochinagi is the only move in the SNK universe that could make him flinch. It's part of a reinactment of the original Orochi's defeat by Kyo, Iori and Chizuru's ancestors. Nothing can change it. If Kyo wasn't born a Kusanagi, he wouldn't have been capable of forcing Orochi to drop his guard the way he did because it wasn't part of the ancient Japanese legend for an outsider to help defeat him. Not even if he had an attack that had the same properties as the Orochinagi anyway. Posted by Darkstalker on 03:22:2002 07:29 AM: Er...I thought RoB Iori held onto Orochi before Kyo used Mu Shiki...I don't recall Iori ever using the Eight Wine Cups in the ending. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:22:2002 02:41 PM: Er...I thought RoB Iori held onto Orochi before Kyo used Mu Shiki...I don't recall Iori ever using the Eight Wine Cups in the ending. To be honest, I haven't seen the ending myself. I've heard from some people that he used the Eight Wine Cups, and that really would make sense if his ancestor gave him eight barrels of wine and made him drunk. If that was an error though, then I apologize. But still, Kyo couldn't have beaten Orochi on his own, so what he did during that battle doesn't amount to much. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:22:2002 03:16 PM: Maybe 8 Wines Cups is something Lantis added to the battle scene for effect? ^^ The KOF story FAQ used some artistic license to spice up the battle scenes a bit because... well, spiced up battle scenes are fun http://www.vgmuseum.com/end/neogeo/b/kof97sp.htm Is this the 8-wines Cups move being used? *knows not much about SNK * Posted by Lantis on 03:22:2002 05:11 PM: Ummm...I never said Iori held the Orochi with the Eight Wine Cups! I just said that Iori held the Orochi with his hands on Orochi's neck when Orochi attempted to control him via the Riot of Blood. Then, when Orochi told Iori to kill Kyo, he turned against Orochi! This is actually part of the legendary Orochi legend: Yagami holds, Kusanagi strikes the final blow. However.... Iori's Eight Wine Cups DM (the one where he launches the geyser that pins the opponent in place) is directly based on the Orochi legend. According to the legend, the Yagamis used eight cups of wine for each head of the Orochi dragon. The dragon drank da booze and got hella drunk (excuse my casual language here ), which put the dragon to sleep, pinning him in place for Kusanagi to attack. And casually, what does Iori do in his super? Pins the opponent in place (obviously not drunk ) for him to put you away. However, I wonder if the Orochi could even faze itself with such a slooooooow DM... Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:22:2002 08:30 PM: Ah! Splendid ending! ........But who was that I saw in the end? Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:23:2002 12:08 AM: Ooooh. Then... where the heck did that person get that Iori held Orochi with the 8 wines cups? ....ah, whatever. Posted by Lantis on 03:23:2002 03:42 AM: Grenade Falcon: What, you mean the girl who appears in the final shot of the God Caliber Team? That's Yuki, Kyo's girlfriend...and she says "Come back safely, Kyo" or something like that... Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:23:2002 06:08 AM: She's cuter than I imagined. Hmm, glad we got that Wine Cups confusion out of the way. (That's the last time I'm ever listening to those people at GameFAQs.) Now another question: Where did each of the eight Orochi clan members learn to fight? Posted by Lantis on 03:23:2002 06:23 AM: Grenade Falcon: Well, according to the official bios, NO Orochi clan member ever did receive proper martial arts training. Their power and skill seems to come from natural ability, something within their blood that makes them qualified fighters. The only person who breaks this rule is Leona, who did receive formal military training from Heidern. There is a funny story behind this...in the official prologue for the New Face Team in KOF '97, Yashiro beats Lucky Glauber to get his invitation for the tournament (the NFT was not officially invited), but before he does so, Yashiro tells Lucky that he is the master of the "Great Punch Art" (or something like that), and after he bashes Lucky and gets the invitation, Shermie asks what that art is all about. Yashiro just smiles and says "I lied!". Posted by Siegfried on 03:23:2002 05:38 PM: Grenade Falcon: Of course, do you think Kyo would ignore someone like Athena if he didn't already have a babe? ^_^ Posted by Psycho Power J on 03:23:2002 11:35 PM: Anyone knows what's the story on Last Blade? I only seen it and it looks like Samurai Shodown. What's the difference? I heard that's where Hibiki came from. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:24:2002 03:05 AM: I have a question about Garcia Concern. What does this corporation specialize in and how did Robert gain all that wealth and power? Posted by Darkstalker on 03:24:2002 03:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon Hmm, glad we got that Wine Cups confusion out of the way. (That's the last time I'm ever listening to those people at GameFAQs.) HEY!!! I'M FROM GAMEFAQS TOO!!! Posted by Lantis on 03:24:2002 04:25 AM: Grenade Falcon: We don't know for sure what the Garcia enterprise dedicates itself to...just as how we don't know anything about the Masters corporation, either! Actually, Robert's wealth also comes from his father, Italian multimillionaire Alberto Garcia (who is an old friend of Takuma's, hence why he sent his son to train with him and literally be a bum 99% of the time )...so, following that line, Alberto must be some guy involved in the fashion or car business (which could be assumed judging Robert's taste in clothes and passion for cars ). Psycho Power J: You're absolutely right...Takane Hibiki comes from The Last Blade 2, no doubt. Last Blade takes place in the mid-19th century, so it's no wonder why it has so many similiarities with Samurai Shodown. Basically, the first game talks about the shenanigans of Shinnosuke Kagami (I always refer to him as a "Kyo with a sword" because he looks just like him, and his attacks are all flames), and his ambition is to control the world by opening some vortex into the realm of darkness (I didn't play LB 1 that much, so don't take my word for that). In order to do so, Kagami digs up Akatsuki Musashi, who is based on the legendary Japanese swordsman Musashi Miyamoto (just like Haohmaru). Kagami wields undescriptable power...but then again, he is merely just one of the four gods that are comissioned to do a special job once a certain evil arises. Kagami just realized his power was so strong that he could use it for his own ambition. But he didn't count on the fact that the other 3 gods were after his trail.... The other 3 gods are: Genbu no Okina (the giddly old fisherman with the pole, basket, and likes to launch his pet turtles at you), Naoe "White Tiger" Shingen (the huge behemoth, who was encased in stone for many years, before being released once again), and Kaede "Blue Dragon", the hero of the series, who in his "awakened" form (in which he reveals his true power as a god) has his hair turn blonde, and gets a lot more cockier (whereas in his normal form, he's just a shy fellow). After Kagami is defeated, Musashi returns to "rest", and 6 months pass before...trouble brews up again! Thanks to the portal that Kagami opened, there is now a open link between the world of the living, and the world of the dead. The world of the dead plans to invade the mortal coil, and in order to clean the way for the invasion, in comes the "Messenger from Afar". In order to seal the portal, one must complete the "Sealing Rite", which needs the help of all 4 gods, and the Sealing Maiden. Kagami seems to have survived his ordeal, but is now forced to amend the trouble he caused due to his ambition. Okina sends Kaede to look out for the Sealing Maiden, while the Messenger from Hades awaits the arrival of those gathered by fate. CHARACTERS: -Kaede: Also known as the "Blue Dragon", one of the 4 gods. A rather silent and shy guy, he trained under the orders of Gaisei, along Moriya and Yuki (with whom Kaede feels a strong attraction). When his master was killed, Kaede assumed it was Moriya, since he was found at the scene of the crime, and gave no explanation to Kaede (so, Kaede assumed he killed his master). During LB 1, Kaede finds out his role as a god wielding the power of the Blue Dragon, so whenever he exploits his power, his hair becomes blond, and he gets a lot more self-confidence (think of it as the Super Saiyajin therapy). In LB 2 (where he is in permanent Awakened form, but there is a code to use the normal Kaede), he finds out two terrible things: one, his beloved Yuki turns out to be Sealing Maiden (and so, needs to be sacrificed in order to seal the gate), and his master, thought dead, comes back as the "Messenger from Hades". Still, he gets the job done, and goes back home. -Minakata Moriya: A cold blooded man of few words, Moriya trained under the orders of Gaisei along with Kaede and Yuki. When Moriya found his master dying one day, he decided he would go out and make the killer pay. Kaede arrived and from the look of things, he assumed Moriya killed Gaisei. But Moriya didn't bother in explaining things (he sorta has this "I don't give a shit about you!" attitude around Kaede), and goes out anyway. And that's what he's always doing...being a "good guy who acts like a badass". -Yuki: This blonde lady also trained under Gaisei along with Kaede and Moriya. In LB 1, unlike Kaede, she is not sure that Moriya killed Gaisei, but will not tell Kaede. I THINK Yuki has something for Moriya, but that's not for sure. In LB 2, she is sent by Okina to find the Sealing Maiden...but she doesn't know that SHE is the Sealing Maiden who needs to be sacrificed in order to seal the gate to the realm of the dead...and she does just that. So, no more Yuki! -Amano Hyo: A cocky guy who likes to smoke, drink sake, and play "shogi" (kind of like chess). A womanizer at heart, Amano can't stand pretty women suffering, so he helps out Hibiki in her quest for revenge in LB 2 (I think he just enters for the "gusto" in LB 1). -Lee Rekka: Just some justice looking Shaolin monk ala Kim who also happens to be a farmer. -Zantetsu: A seasoned killer. Paid to eliminate Kagami, and later paid to do away with the "World of Dead" threat. Zantetsu turns out to be an ancestor to Eiji Kisaragi from AOF 2/KOF '95 (as seen in his LB 2 ending). Whooo...will continue later... Posted by Lantis on 03:24:2002 04:49 AM: -Ichijo Akari: A little girl who happens to be a spirit-summoning priest. She always hangs around with her spirit friends, and pretends to seal all evil forces away. She is a friend of Juzoh, and goes out to seal the evil away in LB 2 because she thinks that is what makes her sister Hikari sick. -Kanzaki Juzoh: A huge, friendly guy with a FEROCIOUS appetite for rice buns (forget Kensou...this guy downs whole BUCKETS of them!). He is in love with Hikari, Akari's sister. So, basically, he just follows Akari around because he wants to help Hikari too. -Genbu no Okina: A giddly old man who spends his life fishing with his pole and always carrying around his basket (filled with turtles). But don't let looks deceive you...this old geezer is one of the four gods needed to complete the Sealing Rite. He is practically the mentor of the other 3 gods, and the wisest, too. -Shinnosuke Kagami: A warrior who, once he found out about his power as a god, used it to pursue his own ambition. He planned to control the world by opening a portal into a realm of darkness, enveloping the world in its' obscure blanket and then become the ruler of it all. However, not only was Kagami defeated, but the portal he opened was used by the realm of the dead as a way to enter the world of the living. In order to make amends, Kagami joins the good guys in LB 2. -Naoe Shigen: The "White Tiger", he spent many years encased in stone, and was liberated when Kagami began his whole mess. Needless to say, Shigen woke up a little bit pissed from his slumber. But even though he's quite ferocious, he also has some softies: such is her foster daughter, Koutetsu, who keeps following him around everywhere he goes. -Takane Hibiki: Daughter of the swordsman who carved the sword of Setsuna ("Sword of the 80 days", amount of time it took to complete the sword), Hibiki seeks for revenge against Setsuna because her father was so fatigued after completing the sword, that he died. She sorta links up with Amano later on (also because Amano was an old friend of her father's). However, in the game, if you kill your opponents up until her sub boss (which is Amano), you'll see that Hibiki turns into some sort of "killing machine", and will only live for slashing opponents. -Setsuna: This guy's creepy...but cool . He's basically the embodiement of the spirits of the realm of the dead, which took possession of the body of a slained baby, and grew up to be...Setsuna. As you might know, Setsuna is one mean bastard who has no respect for any form of life. Death is what burns in his eyes. His sword is called the "Sword of 80 days", because he told Hibiki's father to forge it, and he took 80 days to do just that (Hibiki's father was intrigued by this man, pure with evil). -Washizuka Keiichiro: This guy looks just like Saito Himura from the Rurouni Kenshin anime/manga series! He also happens to be the leader of a police squad, which was completely wiped out by the traitor Shikyoh. Washizuka chases Shikyoh around in LB 1, and then goes to reinstate order in LB 2. -Sanada Kojiro: This man...is actually a lady! Kojiro just dresses like a man because her brother (twin, I guess, because people keep mistaking her with her brother) was one of the victims of Shikyoh. So, she becomes a part of Washizuka's sqaud, pretending to be her brother. She helps out Washizuka in order to seal the evil away in LB 2. -Shikyoh/Mukuro: A blood thirsty killer, this guy was a member of Washizuka's squad, and in a lunatic rage, slained the whole bunch of 'em (including Kojiro's brother). He is then chased by Washizuka...and killed. He reappeares in LB 2 as the undead Mukuro. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:24:2002 05:24 AM: quote: Originally posted by Darkstalker HEY!!! I'M FROM GAMEFAQS TOO!!! LOL, No offense, dude! I didn't mean you in particular. It's just that that's where I was misinformed about the '97 ending. Don't take it personal, 'kay? Posted by degree on 03:24:2002 12:58 PM: Hey, did I just see Dan Hibiki and Bruce Lee in MOTW? I some o' that artwork? Cool. Posted by Psycho Power J on 03:24:2002 02:38 PM: Isn't Shogi a simpler version of Go? Is that the one that Amano Hyo plays? Go is like Othello, except that you take out the surrounded pieces. Posted by Darkstalker on 03:24:2002 02:52 PM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon LOL, No offense, dude! I didn't mean you in particular. It's just that that's where I was misinformed about the '97 ending. Don't take it personal, 'kay? Actually, I wanted to waste a post...er... Posted by Siegfried on 03:24:2002 03:20 PM: No, Shogi is more like chess but other pieces and rules. Posted by Psycho Power J on 03:24:2002 04:43 PM: Whoops. Wrong one. Yeah, shogi is more like chess. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 03:25:2002 12:23 AM: Here's a question about the Korea Team: Why does Kim let Chang and Choi use weapons? Posted by Geocide on 03:25:2002 01:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon Here's a question about the Korea Team: Why does Kim let Chang and Choi use weapons? What I know: Kim saw how skilled both Chang and Choi were with their respective weapons. Rather than take them away in favor of strict discipline bound by code, he trained them in taekwondo which eventually helped them gain better use of their weapons. This also was the best choice because their physical attributes prevented their full potential to be shown if they used only taekwondo...so weapon based combat (which they already knew and eventually got better with) plus taekwondo training was the best method of fight for both of them. Combining would prove to have better results than doing another method and eventually limiting them. Posted by Darkstalker on 03:28:2002 07:41 AM: *lightbulb* I've got it!!! What's Neo Blood's story? Posted by D-Force on 03:28:2002 10:55 AM: Do you mean the game? If so, then Neo Blood is what REALLY happens in '98 and where the NESTS story actually begins. They kidnap Kyo and make clones out of him using his blood sample, then they infused K' with the Kusanagi flames and made Krizalid, another high-calibur clone. As such, K' and Maxima turns against them and escape NESTS. NESTS holds a quasi- KoF Tournament in hopes of finding K' and Maxima, in the meantime Heidern learns of NESTS plans and plans an attack to prevent NESTS from carrying out their motives. This is just off the top of my head, so I could be leaving out some stuff. Posted by TiamatRoar on 03:28:2002 02:07 PM: What's Geese's story in KOF Neo Blood? Or... since he's a last boss, he probably doesn't have much of one, huh? Posted by D-Force on 03:28:2002 06:27 PM: Maybe he's just there to scout things out and see how things work out with NESTS and whether or not he should consider them a threat. Again, I may be leaving out a few thing, so feel free to make any corrections on what I posted. Posted by D-Force on 03:30:2002 09:17 PM: KARMA BUMP!! *gets a seaful of dumbfounded faces* Oops, forgot I wasn't in Gamefaqs. Posted by Lantis on 04:01:2002 05:28 AM: Huh? I go out on spring break for a week and this topic hasn't passed 200 yet? In regards to Chang and Choi, those weapons they use are what they actually used when they were in the criminal life: Chang and his irno ball, and Choi with the claws. Chang was an avid head basher, and Choi was a slashing maniac (being a part-time butcher) before Kim took them in, and it seems like Kim never bothered in taking those weapons away from them when he did (perhaps he never considered them a threat with them because he still owned their asses ) Posted by tool_028 on 04:01:2002 06:32 AM: "Ukyo's weapon and style is based off of the blind samurai character Zatoichi from a series of movies, maybe more information can be found there" - Neo Rasa Hey! i own one of those movies! i haven't watched it in a while though, so i forgot what the fighting is like. anyway this is a great thread, but i'm not completely clear with the whole fatal fury stories. who / what are the jins? i know they have a connection to geese (a fairly enigmatic character). is there a connection to the scrolls of immortality (something that i also know little about). and somebody made a good point many pages ago: samurai shodown has 2 mexicans but no americans! interesting Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:01:2002 08:57 AM: and somebody made a good point many pages ago: samurai shodown has 2 mexicans but no americans! interesting Of course SS has Americans! Does Galford ring a bell? Okay, I got something to ask about Chin. Is he always drunk for a practical reason, or does he just have problems that he wants to escape from? Oh, and what's his relationship with Athena and Kensou? Posted by Siegfried on 04:01:2002 02:37 PM: Nope, GF. The point was that at 1789 San Francisco and Texas were part of Mexico, much like Siegfried comes from the Holy Roman Empire and not Germany. Posted by Lantis on 04:01:2002 02:54 PM: tool_028: Jin Chonrei and Jin Chonshu are twins that are affected by a terrible curse that has plagued their bloodline for centuries: they have the blood of demons. Their great power comes from a malevolent source, which sorta inspires them to do evil deeds, even though they don't want to (especially in the case of Chonshu, who seems to be the more "peace-loving" half of the twins). The Scrolls of Immortality are part of their family treasure, and following the evil influence in them (which has begun to awake), they have planned to use the Scrolls to attain the eternal life and become invincible. That is why everyone aims to stop them in FF 3...except for Geese Howard. In his eternal quest for a weapon or technique that will help him gain the powers of a god, Geese first aimed his ambition at the Scrolls of Immortality held by the Jins (later, he focused on the Orochi power that was at work behind the KOF tournament). At some point, Geese managed to steal the Scrolls away from the Jins at some point, and thus RBFF is held (everyone now tries to stop Geese instead of the Jins). This is where Geese finally dies (as shown in the intro for Garou: MOTW), and he supposedly never managed to use the Scrolls in time of his death. However, in the later games (RBS, RB 2, and RB: Dominated Mind for the Playstation), which are all dream matches, SNK sorta gives us the theory of "what if Geese managed to use the scrolls" kind of situation, since Geese still roams around. The fact that he is still DEAD remains in the following points: *When you fight against him in RBS (a secret match ala Akuma in ST), it's displayed as a "Nightmare" match, a contrary term to "dream match" used for games that never existed. *In Geese's ending in RB 2, he sits on his chair and vanishes, leaving the scrolls behind where he was sitting. This kinda explains my theory as a whiole. *In RB: Dominated Mind, Geese is displayed with an angel halo. Need any more proof? Grenade Falcon: Chin is just following the...um, "healthy" tradition of Japanese artists who portray most old men as giddly/funky sake fanatics. It's not that Chin has any sort of existence problem or anything like that (he does give wise advice from time to time too), it's just that he loves sake for no given reason...I don't know if this REALLY happens (and old men do love sake in Japan), but that's the way it is. Besides, Chin uses the "Drunken Monkey" Kung Fu style, so do you want to give him a better reason to drink the booze? Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:01:2002 05:32 PM: Sorry, was busy w/ girlfriend/spring break/gaming. Anyways to add to what Lantis said, the Jin brothers are based on the original founders of the Qin dynasty in China (this is why the scrolls are called the Qin scrolls isntead of the Jin scrolls) who were constantly searching for, you guessed it, immortality. I am of the belief right now that it is the ORIGINAL two Qin brothers who are control the Jins at points and not true demons as Lantis says. They never completely explain this though. For all we know they could BE the original Qins inhabiting completely random younger bodies or descendants of the family. There was a third Qin brother in real life but I know nothing about him. Reminds me of how Jyazu tries to screw everyone over in the name of Gozu and Mezu in Kizuna Encouter: Fu'un Super Tag Battle (aka Fatal Fury 2099 ). Looking at the Chinese pronounciation as compared to the Jin we get from a Japanese game I think the name is supposed to be pronounced Zjcheen with the accent on the ee. That looks absolutely rediculous written in English though so either Jin or Qin is an exceptable spelling. Oh, and what's his relationship with Athena and Kensou? Chin and Sie Kensou both originally appear in the game Psycho Soldiers, Chin is Athena and Sie's teacher/mentor for their martial arts development and, uh, Psycho-ness? If you're a bad enough dude to BEAT Psycho Soldiers you get to see an ending which is very closely redone in The King of Fighters '95. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:01:2002 09:27 PM: Besides, Chin uses the "Drunken Monkey" Kung Fu style, so do you want to give him a better reason to drink the booze? That's something I still don't understand. You don't have to be drunk to use a drunken art; they're just called drunken arts because the movements affiliated with them are like that of a drunkard. When you're drunk, your sensory input is highly disrupted, so actually attempting to fight with those arts while you're drunk would only help in getting your ass beat. Somehow Chin could fight relatively well even if he is drunk, but heck, maybe it's his Psycho Power that's helping him get by oncoming attacks, giving him a sense of when to strike, etc. Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:02:2002 12:27 AM: I believe he somehow channels the alcohol to increase his Psycho ability because sake is something so dear to him (like how you may get an adrenaline rush from knowing you're fighting for the fate the world, etc.). The best example of this would be how he drinks from his sake bottle as his charge-up animation in The King of Fighters '96~'98 Posted by Nakkurusu on 04:02:2002 02:15 AM: Well, then I figured out why Kensou lost his Pyscho Powers, he ran out of meat buns :P *is shot* Is it me or is SNK making fun of Capcom alot since 99? KOF 99-01: NESTS. Come on, a corporation that wants the main hero's powers? Numerous Kyo clones vs the Dolls? Zero Cannon vs the Pyscho Drive? Military involvement? (Guile, Chun-Li, Charlie vs Ikari team. Also Shadoloo paid higer-ups to ignore the mission or something, while Ling wasn't Ling) Betrayal of NESTS/Shadoloo? (Cammy, Barlog, Birdie, Sagat vs K', Whip, Maxima, Zero) If this doesn't scream "Look, you made fools of yourself with the SFA3 storyline." I don't know what does. Mark of the Wolves: Returning Character: Ryu and Ken vs Terry Ninja kid: Ibuki vs Hokumataru Pro Wrestler: Hugo vs the Griffon Brazilan practioner of a certain well known style: Sean vs Marco New Hero: Rock vs Alex Fighting Brothers: Yun Yang vs Dong Hwan and Jae Hoon. (well this one he just happened to have two sons, but still) Anything else, you would have to try to hard. CONRATURATIONS. ALL CLEAR! Posted by TiamatRoar on 04:02:2002 02:50 AM: Wow, wouldn't that mean that SNK like... made NESTs into that... funky round robin thingy storyline that it is with all those clones on purpose? But... none of the Kyo clones are female Unless you count Kula I don't think it screams making fools of the SFA3 storyline, though, because the SFA3 storyline still manages to beat it in terms of sheer convulutedness. It doesn't scream "Hahaha, we can do that type of storyline that you tried to do in SFA3 even better!" either because... well, just never gave off that feeling. The majority of the people I talked to remarked how they liked the Orochi saga better. Course, that might be for other reasons than SNK not trying to top SFA3 or something. Didn't SNK announce that they had budget cuts that prevented them from doing the storyline they wanted to do due to their financial problems for KOF2000 and KOF2001? I've been telling my friends that NESTs always personally seemed like a Shadaloo rip off to me for a long time now, though Posted by FistsofFury on 04:04:2002 12:14 AM: Question: Does Andy Bogard have the potential to become stronger than his brother Terry? What is holding Andy back?? Why is Terry usually the better of the two? I'll jump in later Posted by Gwawainn on 04:04:2002 07:05 AM: Terry vs Kyo ? Just wondering about something thats been on my mind for a while, and also going back a few pages. Correct me if im wrong, but FF and AoF are two different games, story-wise, and they both meet up at the KoF series.(If I'm wrong, please disregard the rest as it will all just be wrong anyways.) Now, the original KoF was Terry Bogard, if I am not mistaken, having beaten Geese. Then came Kyo, with his fire weilding powers and such. Kyos' team became the new KoF taking the title away form the Lone Wolf Team(I think thats the name of Terry's team). Now, it seems most movies arent canon to storyline of a game, such as SF the animated movie, so it might also be the case with the FF movies, but if it isnt, and the movies do represent the FF games in any sense, then I would belive, Terry would be able to defeat Kyo even with his Kusanagi(sp) Flames. In one of the movies, he beats Geese,(no big deal, seeing how this happens in the game) but then he beats the God Mars, turning himself into a God, and in another he does defeat Wolfgang Crouser(I belive I read somewhere he is he brother, or something the likes of Geese, something about Wolfgang having been taken by his father at a young age to train up in some mountains, and being physically destryed while training with his father, till at one point, he just breaks, and kills his father). I also belive Wolfgang was concidered in the SNK world as an equal or maybe above that of Shin Akuma, and was feared by even Geese himself. Now given the circumstances, seeing how Terry would raise to God status to kill a God, and not just any God, but the God of War, Mars, also defeat Wolfgang, and Geese, the equivalents of Shin Akuma, and M.Bison, couldnt he have had the power to defeat Orchi without the help of anyone? Well, maybe just the help of encouragement, like he had when Geese killed Lilly, or when Mars kills his Terrys second love, having Orchi kill Andy, or someone close to him. Well, bottom line is this, I would like to knwo if Terry could beat Kyo, this is basically a Terry Vs Kyo thing pretty much, and also why Kyo turns into the new KoF over Terry, and why Terry never takes his title back from Kyo. EDIT: Took out the Capcom question to not bother anyone else, moving it to the Capcom thread instead. Posted by Darkstalker on 04:04:2002 12:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by FistsofFury Question: Does Andy Bogard have the potential to become stronger than his brother Terry? What is holding Andy back?? Why is Terry usually the better of the two? I'll jump in later Because Terry beat Geese and Andy didn't. :P Seriously, I'm not sure. Posted by Ultima on 04:04:2002 07:38 PM: Re: Terry vs Kyo ? quote: Originally posted by Gwawainn Now, it seems most movies arent canon to storyline of a game, such as SF the animated movie, so it might also be the case with the FF movies, [...] now given the circumstances, seeing how Terry would raise to God status to kill a God, and not just any God, but the God of War, Mars, also defeat Wolfgang, and Geese, the equivalents of Shin Akuma, and M.Bison, couldnt he have had the power to defeat Orchi without the help of anyone? And the above is just one of the reasons why the Fatal Fury movie was pure garbage. Terry basically went Super Sayajin seemingly out of the blue (I don't care if he had The Rage™, it was still a DBZ style of "plot"). He should not have won if the Mars Armour was supposed to be as powerful as they claimed it was. Geese is pretty powerful, but he's far more dangerous outside of battle than in it. Krauser is a more powerful fighter than him I think. But neither are in the class of Gouki. Krauser may be closer to Bison's level, though with Bison's track record (it took, what, EIGHT people to take him down in SFA3?), I think Bison's stronger (definitely SFA3 BIson; SF2 Bison may or may not be at the same level of Krauser). So no, Terry shouldn't be able to take on Orochi all by himself. And no, the FF anime aren't canon. So that renders the whole thing moot. Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:04:2002 08:55 PM: Correct me if im wrong, but FF and AoF are two different games, story-wise, and they both meet up at the KoF series.(If I'm wrong, please disregard the rest as it will all just be wrong anyways.) Well they actually meet up when Geese Howard makes an appearance in Art of Fighting 2, and that Art of fighting takes place on the west side of Southtown (Fatal Fury: King of Fighters being set on the easter peninsula). Then KoF'94 came out as a way to have Fatal Fury vs. Art of Fighting with other classic SNK characters and new entries added in. Now, the original KoF was Terry Bogard, if I am not mistaken, having beaten Geese. Then came Kyo, with his fire weilding powers and such. Kyos' team became the new KoF taking the title away form the Lone Wolf Team(I think thats the name of Terry's team). Well to be technical about it Billy Kane was the original King of Fighters. Geese set him up as the KoF champion when he formed the tournament (right after he murdered Jeff Bogard). Then, as you say, Kyo's team wins KoF'94. Most of the events in the Fatal Fury animated productions are not canon, they concentrated more on getting the essence and personalities of the characters right and as a result the plot took a hit. Though it is true that Terry, Kyo, Geese, and Krauser are the most powerful "human" fighters. If you throw everyone from SNK into the mix then you'd have Orochi and the King of the Monsters cast at the top. Posted by Lantis on 04:04:2002 10:09 PM: FistsofFury: I guess that question can be answered in the same way as why Ken isn't better than Ryu, why Benimaru isn't better than Kyo, or why the Mets aren't better than the Yankees... All right, in all utter seriousness, it's just the way how the original Fatal Fury anime put it: while Andy is more swayed to emotions and is a bit reckless sometimes, Terry is a lot more cool, calculating, focused, and has a more "pure" fighting spirit than Andy. While Andy is always hyped up and rushes into action the minute he feels like it, Terry is more of a patient guy. Gwawainn: You shouldn't base Terry's strength on what you saw on the FF: Motion Picture. Heck, I can't even guess how Masami Obari would have followed the FF anime had he continued it...blowing Terry up to those levels was NOT a smart move by the "Let's make everyone bishonen!" artist. How would he explain Terry losing to other people once he had already defeated a GOD? I guess Obari hit the "point of no return", and hence, no more FF animes were made. And besides, do you really believe that Terry could gather that amount of power, seriously? I don't see him doing any kind of "Sempu Ken" or "Hado Sempu Kyaku" in any FF or KOF game he has been in and most likely he never will. Terry basically has no "power source", so I don't swallow that "chi from the earth" crap Obari has been spewing at us since the first FF anime (I do like how he establishes the character relations', yet some things he does are just unexplainable). This is all the way to say, like Ultima, that the FF animes should not be taken as a solid judgement to rate Terry for his videogame appearances. In animes, you have a bigger forum to "dramatize" powers (heck, I think the Hadoken would be the most useless move in fighting game history if Ryu did it the way he does it in SF II V), but that doesn't represent their true power level. And since they took DB in here, I wonder where is the command in the DB games that allows Goku to blow up the planet? Posted by Nakkurusu on 04:04:2002 10:47 PM: Doesn't Fatal Fury take place in '92? Cause I doubt it would take place '91 according to the ending... Hrm... I don't where I remember hearing it. Posted by Siegfried on 04:05:2002 02:12 AM: AFAIK, Fatal Fury takes place in '92 and FF2/FFS take place in '93. FFS seems to be official - I guess that's kind of what Third Strike is to Second Impact then, just more stories after the tournament. After that the KoF games took over the name and changed the years around. Posted by Geocide on 04:05:2002 05:47 AM: I figured it was more like: FF - 91 FFS - 92 FF3/RBFF - 93 I think FF3 and RBFF happened in the same year...maybe even back to back. I'm not too sure if RB replaced FF3 or not. Something I could never figure out storyline-wise: Geese lived to see KOF96, yet he supposedly died in RB, which happened years prior. I know hints of his death are in RB2 and RBS. Plus there's the Garou intro. I'm confused. Posted by FistsofFury on 04:05:2002 05:57 AM: quote: Originally posted by Lantis FistsofFury: I guess that question can be answered in the same way as why Ken isn't better than Ryu, why Benimaru isn't better than Kyo, or why the Mets aren't better than the Yankees... All right, in all utter seriousness, it's just the way how the original Fatal Fury anime put it: while Andy is more swayed to emotions and is a bit reckless sometimes, Terry is a lot more cool, calculating, focused, and has a more "pure" fighting spirit than Andy. While Andy is always hyped up and rushes into action the minute he feels like it, Terry is more of a patient guy. yes..I see what you mean. Yet, so many people talk about how Andy is the serious and emotionless one......I don't see that. I see a hidden rage, buried beneath the surface. It comes out when he fights IMHO. And another thing.......Andy trains constantly. Like every waking moment he either spends training or meditating......how come he hasn't surpassed his brother? I highly doubt Terry trains much, he probably just runs around fighting every thing that moves Posted by FistsofFury on 04:05:2002 06:02 AM: Oh wait....I just thought about it and answered my question (d'oh) It's all mental. To be a good martial artist, it extends beyond just training and strength and technique. Most of it is the state of mind of the martial artist. Andy trains constantly yes, but his emotions are all screwed up...so end the end it holds him back from becoming stronger....but Terry on the other hand, is "calm as the still waters" as some Zen person would put it. Terry's mind is in the right place, so he improves at a faster rate. And maybe I'm just rambling Posted by Lantis on 04:05:2002 06:24 AM: Yeah! And besides Andy's got that hoe Mai by his side, always pestering him and distracting him from his true goal for two fairly good reasons! Want me to go deeper on this statement? While Terry is all cool with her lady Mary, Andy keeps running away and giving Mai the cold shoulder all the time. And they say Andy doesn't have personality trouble... Posted by Darkstalker on 04:05:2002 07:09 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide I figured it was more like: FF - 91 FFS - 92 FF3/RBFF - 93 I think FF3 and RBFF happened in the same year...maybe even back to back. I'm not too sure if RB replaced FF3 or not. Something I could never figure out storyline-wise: Geese lived to see KOF96, yet he supposedly died in RB, which happened years prior. I know hints of his death are in RB2 and RBS. Plus there's the Garou intro. I'm confused. RBFF took place in 98. Garou takes place in 2008, and it says that 10 years earlier, Geese died (which was in RB:FF). Posted by tool_028 on 04:05:2002 07:13 AM: this is a cool thread, but i have two big questions: -what is the story concerning the Jins (i dont even know what it is / they are) -what goes down in KOF 2001? galactica-phantom.hypermart.net/frames.html provides good information about the other years, but it stops after 2000. thanks in advance Posted by Darkstalker on 04:05:2002 07:23 AM: The Jins are a couple of cursed brothers. They want to harness the power of the Scrolls of Immortality in FF3. However, before they could do that, Geese stole the scrolls (hence RB:FF happening). In the end, while Geese was getting his ass kicked by Terry in RB:FF which takes place in '98, they get hold of the scrolls. However, instead of harnessing it's power, they just destroy it, to get rid of the curse. Basically, that's it...I think. Lantis should be here soon to clear everything I missed out or messed up. Posted by Lantis on 04:05:2002 03:40 PM: I guess I don't have to explain any further than what Darkstalker has already said about the Jin twins . But, I also have to explain to you, that Rasa has told me that the Jins are actually possessed by the original Qin twins or something like that. Whatever it is (may it be demons or anicent spirits), the Jins are led to harness the Scrolls of Immortality, although I doubt it's out of their own free will. They are just controlled by the evil spirits within them. In their RBFF ending, the destiny of the scrolls is revealed: Chonrei rips them apart, and as shown in the same ending, they begin to live their lives as normal kids again. As for the KOF 2001 info...I just submitted my KOF story FAQ update to GameFAQs yesterday, but they haven't uploaded it yet. I guess it'll be up in the next few days. It will have all the info you need about the events in KOF 2001. Posted by Nakkurusu on 04:05:2002 03:58 PM: You mean you have the KOF 20001 Graphical Mook? (It basically has EVERYTHING on the game) I downloaded 4 pictures (from the www.orochinagi.com forums), containing all the usual cut scenes, K' team ending and the SPECIAL edit team ending. I can give it you. But it's in Japanese. Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:05:2002 11:04 PM: quote: Originally posted by Lantis I guess I don't have to explain any further than what Darkstalker has already said about the Jin twins . But, I also have to explain to you, that Rasa has told me that the Jins are actually possessed by the original Qin twins or something like that. Whatever it is (may it be demons or anicent spirits), the Jins are led to harness the Scrolls of Immortality, although I doubt it's out of their own free will. They are just controlled by the evil spirits within them. In their RBFF ending, the destiny of the scrolls is revealed: Chonrei rips them apart, and as shown in the same ending, they begin to live their lives as normal kids again. That's right Lantis, the original Qin brothers are the evil spirits who still seek immortality by possessing people in their line. Now I think the Jins claim to be extremely old but generally I think that while they're maybe a little older than they LOOK (being kept young by some of the power of the scrolls) it's really the original Qins using them as figureheads to stay alive and continue to search for power. This also makes that theory about Geese Howard's soul trying to possess Rock (which stemmed from that "What is this power in me?!" win pose when you win with a Geese super and how he seems all too eager to join Kain at the end of the game) a little more believable. Dammit, Garou 2 NEEDS to get made. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:06:2002 05:26 AM: This also makes that theory about Geese Howard's soul trying to possess Rock (which stemmed from that "What is this power in me?!" win pose when you win with a Geese super and how he seems all too eager to join Kain at the end of the game) a little more believable. Is it also possible that it might be the techniques themselves that are causing Rock to feel all that pain? Maybe he just isn't as strong as Geese was to handle the RagingStorm or Deadly Rave Neo perfectly? Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:06:2002 09:12 PM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon Is it also possible that it might be the techniques themselves that are causing Rock to feel all that pain? Maybe he just isn't as strong as Geese was to handle the RagingStorm or Deadly Rave Neo perfectly? Yeah, but what's the fun in that? Besides it'd be a perfect way for Geese to "return." Right now they could have him come back any number of ways due to the intentional vagueness surrounding the final nature of the Qin Scrolls, "the legacy of Geese Howard" and the contents of his will. Posted by Darkstalker on 04:07:2002 04:13 AM: This is Geese's will: Do not worry about my death. It is intentional to make the storyline better. I'm sure Snk will find some reason to make me come back. In the end, you can spend all my money, but you may NOT bang my wife. Currently dead, Geese Posted by Lantis on 04:07:2002 05:36 AM: I would include the following notes in Geese's will: "To Krauser: No, you may not use my suite in the Grand Southtown Hotel for your private bangings. Get your own, you lowlife beggar! To Billy: To you, I leave my dirty clothes, I want 'em shiny and new by the time I come back. And no, you may not use my silver Ferrari. Punk. To Terry: NYAH NYAH! Can't get me, losa!" BTW, the KOF story FAQ has been updated...I suggest you get your lasy asses over to GameFAQs and check it out...I have put new names in the Credits section... Posted by Geocide on 04:07:2002 07:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by Darkstalker RBFF took place in 98. Garou takes place in 2008, and it says that 10 years earlier, Geese died (which was in RB:FF). Wow...that explains alot. Especially since there was no KOF that year so there was room for everything in RB to happen. Thanks. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:07:2002 08:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide Wow...that explains alot. Especially since there was no KOF that year so there was room for everything in RB to happen. Thanks. I think KOF Neo-Blood for the Game Boy Advance is supposed to take place in '98 just before RB happened. I presume this is where the NESTS chapter really begins because Kyo's DNA was taken right after the Orochi battle. Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:07:2002 08:52 AM: quote: Originally posted by Geocide Wow...that explains alot. Especially since there was no KOF that year so there was room for everything in RB to happen. Thanks. Geo my son did you not read the earlier parts of the thread where I state this several times? GF is right, KoFEX HAS to be set right before RBFF1. Posted by Nakkurusu on 04:07:2002 08:45 PM: I think you guys need to go to this thread, It's asking if KOF is part of the whole storyline that FF and AOF.. and well... just read it because I'm already confused trying to explain it to you. Lantis, you've seen the thread... HELP! http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genm...4&topic=2619571 CONRATURATIONS! Posted by Geocide on 04:07:2002 11:33 PM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon I think KOF Neo-Blood for the Game Boy Advance is supposed to take place in '98 just before RB happened. I presume this is where the NESTS chapter really begins because Kyo's DNA was taken right after the Orochi battle. I saw D-Force mention this once. I forgot about it, though. From experience, all I saw was a mini KOF99. But since I have not beaten the game to know anything about its story, I won't argue. quote: Originally posted by Neo Rasa Geo my son did you not read the earlier parts of the thread where I state this several times? GF is right, KoFEX HAS to be set right before RBFF1. I skimmed through most of the thread thus far. Posted by Lantis on 04:09:2002 05:32 AM: quote: Originally posted by Nakkurusu I think you guys need to go to this thread, It's asking if KOF is part of the whole storyline that FF and AOF.. and well... just read it because I'm already confused trying to explain it to you. Lantis, you've seen the thread... HELP! http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genm...4&topic=2619571 CONRATURATIONS! I have indeed seen this thread, Nakkurusu, in fact I even replied to it once (even though it wasn't too much of a "reply", so to speak ), but the problem is I don't know what to make of it. Not that I doubt my own words (I still remain firm in my conviction that they are INDEED directly related to the KOF series), the problem is that anyone can think what they can of it, and still they could perfectly do without each other. For example, no events that were done in the KOF series were ever mentioned in the FF series or AOF series, but then again, I don't see the point of it. The FF and AOF teams don't even play major roles in the KOF tournament so they could talk about it in their "home series". It's almost like saying that the Final Fight and Street Fighter series are not related to each other because of, say, the identity of Guy's master (Zeku or Genryusai) or because of Poison's true sexuality, or because Rolento kind of "screwed" in insinuating that Guy had something to do with Mad Gear (SFA 2, although that was just a mistranslation). Sure, Saiki and Tiamat Roar did a good job explaining it in the SF plot FAQ, but that doesn't take away the fact that there are STILL people who doubt that the relation is 100% accurate between the two series. What I have to say? Here are my solid points of defense: 1) Like Xiaoki mentioned in the same thread, if you finish KOF '94 with the Fatal Fury Team, Rugal says something like "Now I see why Geese and Krauser were defeated....". This, of course, happened in Fatal Fury 1 and 2, respectively, which also directly links Terry as the former champion of the King of Fighters tournament before he left way for Kyo. 2) In Kim's ending in RBFF (still a canon game), once he arrives at his home in Korea, he is received by a cheering party of friends and fans. Now, check out the crowd closely...Chang and Choi are there! First KOF reference in a FF game, ladies and gentlemen. 3) What about the background stories of the FF characters and their relationships between them that are still portrayed in the KOF series? Terry and his rivalry with Geese. The persecution of Andy at the hands of Mai. The relationship between Mary and Terry. Same goes for the AOF characters. Eiji still persecutes the Sakazaki family. Mr. Big wants revenge on them as well (for what they did to him in AOF 1 and 2). Trying to ignore the FF and AOF series with those background drops is just silly. Those games DID happen and were portrayed in the KOF series. Or should we just pretend they are just a mere fact and forget about the games? I don't think so.... 4) About Rock telling Terry he is "still the champ" in Garou: MOTW, what if Rock still held Terry in that status, even though he isn't? Moreso, since the King of Fighters tournament stopped being a Southtown-only tournament ever since Geese's first defeat (with Terry resulting as champion), the people of Southtown could still hold Terry as THEIR champion (THE PEOPLE'S CHAMPION! ). I also tend to disagree what Hurricane Higashi's comment that RBFF takes place in 1996 (year in which the game was released). Just because a game is released in X year, doesn't neccesarily mean it HAS to take place that year. I doubt the Alpha series actually took place after the SF II series, but if we're going by his line of logic, I guess so, huh? Come on! Geese still appears in KOF '97, and then dare to tell me about a game (canon-wise) where he appeared as a historically active character? Didn't think so.... I really don't doubt the value of SOME users at GameFAQs (I posted there once, as well), but man...they just freaked out and tried to chow down Tiamat because there was facts that Poison was a guy once (you could ask Tiamat more about it). And besides, the plague of fanboys makes the boards sometimes a bit...painful to the sight. Posted by TiamatRoar on 04:09:2002 05:46 AM: I personally group people who say that Fatal Fury does NOT occur in the same canon world as KOF in the same group of people as those who say Street Fighter Alpha 3 is not canon. IE, people who can't be helped. ...no, wait, in all honesty, I think that people who don't think Fatal Fury and KOF take place within the same continuity are even crazier. I mean, SFA3 had tons of zany wackiness, but Fatal Fury and KOF just go so ridiculously hand in hand with each other and don't even require retroactive changes to get the two to exist together like Street Fighter Alpha series did to Street Fighter 2. Oo So just because they aren't -required- to be together means they don't go together? I mean, for crying out loud, they share the same characters and they don't even have any blatant contradictions like Street Fighter 2 (before SF2 Revival fixed them with retroactive changes and a latest version of SF2) had with Street Fighter Alpha series! But... eh, I've come to admit long before I even came to the shoryuken forums that ignoramouses are always going to be everywhere. Though I admit that gamefaqs has some of the more crazy people... (that doesn't mean ALL of them are crazy, of course) My new sig is a new reflection of my ever growing cynicism with the world! Posted by D-Force on 04:10:2002 03:20 AM: quote: Originally posted by Lantis I also tend to disagree what Hurricane Higashi's comment that RBFF takes place in 1996 (year in which the game was released). Just because a game is released in X year, doesn't neccesarily mean it HAS to take place that year. I doubt the Alpha series actually took place after the SF II series, but if we're going by his line of logic, I guess so, huh? Come on! Geese still appears in KOF '97, and then dare to tell me about a game (canon-wise) where he appeared as a historically active character? Didn't think so.... Sounds like he's been taking arguing lessons from Chi, seeing as though that's her main argument; the time in which the game itself was released. Posted by Nakkurusu on 04:11:2002 01:13 AM: Lantis, after reading your updated story FAQ... (Kudos by the way.) It seemed like you had everyone on the ship and thus fighting Igniz. (Well besides the NESTS team for obvious reasons.) Because quite frankly the scene before the actual different ending's wouldn't make sense :P. But if the Hero team were the only people fighting O. Zero... WHERE THE HELL WAS EVERYONE ELSE?! This is my theory: MayLee: Shouldn't we be helping them... Heidern: Um... no! We have to do a suprise attack and stuff, so we don't waste our energy. Ralf: *whispering to Heidern* Nice save, commander. Benimaru: Who want's to play gin rummy? Terry: OK! Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:11:2002 08:20 PM: Some more questions: Could someone tell me exactly what Marie Heinlein saw in Geese Howard? Did they marry each other, or did Geese just bang her up? And is it true that Kyo and Iori don't hate each other anymore? Posted by FistsofFury on 04:11:2002 08:40 PM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon Some more questions: Could someone tell me exactly what Marie Heinlein saw in Geese Howard? Did they marry each other, or did Geese just bang her up? And is it true that Kyo and Iori don't hate each other anymore? From what I've seen and heard, Kyo never really hated Iori. Kyo was.....IMHO reluctantly forced into this blood rivallry. I remember an pre-fight into between Iori in Kyo in some Kof...I think it was either 96, 97, or 98. Of course, this isn't the actual dialouge, my memory's hazy.....but you'll get the jist of it. Iori: Come, I will tear the flesh from your bones! Kyo: Do we have to do this? *Then he said something else.....like 'Oh well' or something * Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that Kyo dosen't want to do the whole "battle to the death" thing.......but he feels he must. Ok.....and as of right now......I think the Iori/Kyo dynamic has downgraded into a fiece rivallry...I think the hate for Kyo that Iori once had is gone, and they just like fighting each other Posted by Lantis on 04:11:2002 10:41 PM: Nakkurusu: Well, I had the Hero Team face True Zero because it seemed more "symbolic" that they would fight him, because of everyone's personal agenda against Zero and his comrades. We all know what everyone feels about Krizalid (about him being K's clone, and him believing that he was Whip's brother), and of course, the personal grudge of Lin against Ron. You can say that the other teams were just "sightseeing" the rocket ship while the Hero Team faced Zero and co. Grenade Falcon: What do you mean? Don't you notice the personal charisma and pimp factor of Geese? He's a womanizing badass! I doubt Marie was interested in Geese's personal wealth and power because she supposedly comes from a noble European lineage (or how could you explain Kain's incredible fortune?), but what Marie saw in Geese is beyond me. It's one of those odd things of love...it kinda reminds me why Bulma married Vegeta in the Dragon Ball Z manga/anime series. I think there is some part in Kain's pre-fight dialogue where he says that Marie was Geese's wife, so I guess they DID got married, but maybe Geese ditched her when he found out she was pregnant (because regardless of it all, I doubt Geese would leave a good bang just like that ). Here's a nice sample of Kyo and Iori's dialogue in their special intro in KOF '96, just to show you a sample of their situation: Kyo "Doushite mo yaru no ka?" (Are you sure you want to do this?) Iori: "Imasara inochigoi ka?" (Are you begging for your life?) So, Kyo is pretty reluctant as to fight with Iori to the death (as Iori does seem intent on). Posted by Nakkurusu on 04:12:2002 02:13 AM: quote: Originally posted by Lantis Nakkurusu: Well, I had the Hero Team face True Zero because it seemed more "symbolic" that they would fight him, because of everyone's personal agenda against Zero and his comrades. We all know what everyone feels about Krizalid (about him being K's clone, and him believing that he was Whip's brother), and of course, the personal grudge of Lin against Ron. You can say that the other teams were just "sightseeing" the rocket ship while the Hero Team faced Zero and co. I was just kidding, and pointing out the humor in that. If you not actually mad at me then.. Posted by tool_028 on 04:12:2002 06:19 AM: another quick question: how old are robert g. and yuri in relation to each other? there seems to me to be a big age gap Posted by Lantis on 04:12:2002 03:05 PM: quote: Originally posted by tool_028 another quick question: how old are robert g. and yuri in relation to each other? there seems to me to be a big age gap Not at all... Robert was born on December 23, 1973, so he's currently 28 years old. Yuri was born on December 7, 1976, so she's currently 25 years old. Robert is 2 years and 349 days older than Yuri. By today's standards, I think that's pretty fair... But...if you consider Leona with either Ralf or Clark... Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:12:2002 10:27 PM: I think there is some part in Kain's pre-fight dialogue where he says that Marie was Geese's wife, so I guess they DID got married, but maybe Geese ditched her when he found out she was pregnant (because regardless of it all, I doubt Geese would leave a good bang just like that ). So Geese could've ditched her because of a natural function he was responsible for? If that's the case, he shouldn't hate her for having a child. He should be angry at himself for forgetting to keep a sufficient supply of rubbers. Posted by Siegfried on 04:13:2002 12:30 AM: Lantis: "it kinda reminds me why Bulma married Vegeta in the Dragon Ball Z manga/anime series" THANKS a lot! I didn't see that yet... In KoF2001 Kyo and Iori are standing next to each other, seeming to have a friendly chat before they begin. Years ago they were throwing all kinds of fire at each other. I'm certainly for the fierce rivalry thing. Too bad the story went down the drain as of KoF2000... too many NESTS characters and strange Kyo clones. I have some hope for the Chinese centered storyline of 2002 (if that's true)... Posted by Lantis on 04:13:2002 04:27 AM: Grenade Falcon: Actually, that is why Geese is so damn cool in his vast diversity: he could have had MANY different reasons to ditch Marie. Aside from the possibility I mentioned, he could have also left Marie because he was too busy taking care of things in Southtown, he was away fighting off his opposition, busy taking care of the Orochi power/Scrolls of Immortality, heck, it could even boil down to "Geese didn't give a rat's ass about Marie, got bored of her, and left her to rot". There's a terrible coincidence, though, that if you check out Rock's age in Garou, he's 17 (year 2008), so if you substract it all comes down to Rock's year of birth being 1991: which was the year of Fatal Fury 1's release in Japan. Maybe I look way too much into things... I honestly think that the whole "Kain's purpose" thing going on in the CvS thread should go here, but oh well... Siegfried: Ummm... In KOF 2001: Kyo: "Temae no honoo wa nani'iro da?" ([Tell me Yagami,] what's the color of your flame?) Iori: "Itai koto sore dake ka?! Nara ba..." (That's all you have to say to me?! Then...[SEE FOR YOURSELF!!!]) That they're closer to each other doesn't mean they're inviting each other to dinner! Posted by TiamatRoar on 04:13:2002 05:09 AM: Gotta love tangents? I could move it here if you want me to. All I know about Kain are his ideals, really. He never really goes into depth why he wants to follow Geese's legacy, but he does go into his ideals a lot. To Freeman, he says that people who are too scared and weak to do anything are useless. He keeps on ranting about how might makes right. He also rants about how the reason a society where only the mighty rule is good is because it forces people to live life to the fullest. Kain is tired of people letting themselves simply be bossed around and being complacent, and he thinks a society where only the mighty are accepted will force people to either improve themselves to be mighty or get the boot. He tells multiple characters (B. Jenet, for one thing) that life is just a series of battles, and that's also a large part of where his philosophy comes in. Since life is a series of battles, the mightier you are, the more you can live. Of course, this is also why he tells Terry that these days, no one has the will to truly live. This is also why I find it hard to picture Kain being Geese's friend. Geese was one of the main people that kept all the other people so complacent. Kain's ideals seem to support people actually stopping with the cowardice and rising up against Geese's iron rule of south town, since Geese himself -endorses- cowardice and will spare you so long as you don't get in his way, while Kain will give you the boot if you dare to be a coward. Or at least, that's what I think of the two. That doesn't necessarily mean that Kain was not Geese's friend, though. It's just why I find it hard to picture Especially after what Geese did to Kain's sister. And no, still dunno what's up with Kain saying Marie is still alive. Needless to say, that's a question that won't be answered until Garou 2. And I still contend that despite this, Kain realizes the importance of emotions. I have yet to see any signs of OOCness or real plot bending in both Kain's storyline and Grant's storyline when you play as them, and those two right there are obvious indicators. But in addition to this, he also agrees with Terry when Terry tells him that one can not live by strength alone. Kain feels that even though compassion breeds conniving and bias (and thus is unconducive to being truly mighty), one still needs it. More showing of this is how he tells Freeman that Freeman, a mighty man who fights just to kill others, is pathetic. I think this is because Freeman has no emotions, even if Freeman is a mighty fighter (Freeman exists only to kill others for the hell of it. Like a murderous Cody ). Kain says Freeman is only slightly less pathetic than cowards that do nothing. And... that's my Kain rant for now :P Oh yea, forgot. What all this has to do with Geese's legacy, I have -NO- clue Posted by tool_028 on 04:15:2002 04:38 AM: i had no idea yuri was so old; she certainly doesn't look 25. and 2 more ?'s: -is shingo a good fighter? or is he on the lowest tier. just because he's comic relief does not mean he has to be on a dan level. besides, he did pretty well in 1999. -is saisyu really really strong? it seems like he should be much more influential in the stroyline if he's kyo's father (considering that kyo is supposedly one of the best fighters on the planet). thanks to lantis and whoever answers my next 2 questions Posted by D-Force on 04:16:2002 03:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by tool_028 and 2 more ?'s: -is shingo a good fighter? or is he on the lowest tier. just because he's comic relief does not mean he has to be on a dan level. besides, he did pretty well in 1999. -is saisyu really really strong? it seems like he should be much more influential in the stroyline if he's kyo's father (considering that kyo is supposedly one of the best fighters on the planet). thanks to lantis and whoever answers my next 2 questions --Shingo's a pretty good fighter. They've been improving him since he first arrived on the scene in '97 and he's quickly being implemented in the current KOF storyline. I haven't played 2001 yet, so I don't know how he plays on that one. --If Saisyu taught Kyo most of everything he knows, then he has to be really, really strong. As for being more influential in the storyline, he's just taken Shingo under his wing ever since Kyo blew Shingo off in KOF 2001, so I say he'll have some influence in the storyline. Hope that answers your questions. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:16:2002 04:03 AM: Got a question about Yamazaki. Is he a rapist? If you translate the dialogue in his CvS2 intro with Maki, Maki says "What are you staring at?", then Yamazaki gets up from his squatting position and says "I'm not satisified yet." Posted by Psycho Power J on 04:16:2002 05:38 AM: I think Yamazaki is a blood-thirsty psycho who's homicidal urges weren't satisfied yet, so he's going to start on Maki. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:16:2002 06:58 AM: Yeah, but you can see that he's staring at her lower body in that intro. Does he get sexually stimiluated by attacking women or something? Posted by Psycho Power J on 04:16:2002 07:13 AM: He's probably a sadistic sicko who gets aroused by that sort of thing. Or maybe it's blood-lust, and he's looking at where he's going to start cutting with his knife. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a rapist though. Posted by tool_028 on 04:16:2002 11:53 PM: quote: Originally posted by Psycho Power J He's probably a sadistic sicko who gets aroused by that sort of thing. Or maybe it's blood-lust, and he's looking at where he's going to start cutting with his knife. I wouldn't be surprised if he's a rapist though. yamazaki sounds like a real fun guy to hang out with. anyway, the thing i dont understand about the saisyu-kyo relationship (this also applies to the takuma-ryo relationship) is this: if the sons are such good fighters, but they were trained by their fathers, wouldn't the fathers be so much stronger than they are? if the fathers are stronger, i dont see why so little attention is paid to them, and everyone focuses on how awesome kyo is, when in fact he's not as good as his dad Posted by FistsofFury on 04:17:2002 12:20 AM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon Got a question about Yamazaki. Is he a rapist? I bet he is. Yamazaki isn't the type of person that cares about other people's feelings. Yamazaki is all about himself, and someone else gets in his way.........kill em If Yamazaki wanted sex, he'd go out and get it....regardless of the lucky lady wanted him or not. Plus, Yamazaki likes pain.....so a woman crying and screaming "help" "no" "stop" and various other words would be music to Ryuji's ears. Posted by Lantis on 04:17:2002 01:47 AM: I think the whole "son better than father" thing is all about that weird "next generation" theory. Supposedly, according to All About Japanese Anime and Video Game Philosophy art. 23329: "All the descendants are destined to become better than their ancestors, either it be a simple DNA twist, or because the ancestors are just 'outdated' and the new guys are the real deal". Sincerely, it just should just be obvious that everyone likes to leave the "past" in the past, and let the newcomers get all the credits. Even Kyo nowadays is making way for K', a clone of himself. Terry is leaving the FF throne to Rock. Ryu is SUPPOSEDLY yielding to Alex. The sons of Kim even yield special elemental powers that not even Kim or uncle Jhun could have conceived of. But what are we surprised about? Wasn't Gohan SUPPOSED to be better than Goku in DBZ? Ranma to Genma in Ranma 1/2? Legion to Xavier in X-Men? Ths list keeps going and going and going... Posted by tool_028 on 04:18:2002 05:30 AM: thanks, lantis, that clears things up. you mentioned "uncle" jhun. and kim and jhun really brothers, or is uncle just a respectful term? Posted by Lantis on 04:18:2002 05:45 AM: Uncle Jhun was just used as a friendly term by yours truly... Posted by Darkstalker on 04:19:2002 07:21 AM: Um...so what are we discussing now? Posted by ShinkuuR on 04:19:2002 06:31 PM: Well, this isn't a SNK fighting game but...Does the Metal Slug Series have any sort of storyline??? Because if it is I don't know it! Oh and I don't know if this was answered yet, but is Kevin Ryan supposed to be Blue Mary's relative? If so why is he in Mark of the Wolves instead of her? Posted by Crayfish on 04:20:2002 12:28 AM: Lantis, please could you tell me about the individual histories of Cheng Sinzan and Tungh Fu Rue and their relationship? I know there is probably alot for Tung so just a basic outline of what is important will do. Don't suspose there is much on Cheng so anything you know is of interest. Thanks, Crayfish. Posted by Lantis on 04:20:2002 03:15 AM: Shinkuu R: I don't know much about Metal Slug's story either (heck, the games are too freaky fun to ever pay attention to that ), but I think that all the Metal Slug characters are part of some mercenary agency ala Ikari Warriors, and they fight in several countries to erradicate the evil intentions of the "X" army (or whatever those Nazi wannabes are called, you know, even their symbols are similiar to those of the Nazis) or the aliens that come to conquer the earth (Metal Slug X/3). Anyways, I guess action games like those really don't need elaborate stories (did anybody even remember a premise behind the Contra series aside from the usual "Oh, Red Falcon and his croonies have came to conquer the earth, call Mad Dog and Scorpion to kick their asses!" ) About Kevin, I DOUBT he has something to do with Mary, despite the heavy similiarities (Identical last name, both are police officers, both are semi-grapplers), but considering this is SNK, if they really wanted the similiarity to be REALLY obvious, they would have put some trademark feature of Mary in Kevin (like the "bang you" pose, possibly a dog similiar to Anton, or maybe the little Marky plays that part? ). In the meantime, there is no sign of that. Moreso, you would think that if Kevin really has something to do with Mary, don't you think he should have heard at least SOMETHING about Terry, instead of hunting him down? Crayfish: There isn't ANYTHING that links Tung and Cheng. No ending has provided a relation between them (not even the more vague ones), and well, I think the only person Cheng could relate to closely to in the FF series is to Yamazaki (both are money-hungry criminals who work in the underworld, although Cheng doesn't like to do as dirty workas Yamazaki does. Cheng cheats here and there, mostly white-collar crimes. Yamazaki, on the other hand, wouldn't mind staining his hands with blood to get some moola! ) Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:20:2002 03:27 AM: SNK actually had pretty extensive story and background information for the entire Metal Slug series on their official page but since that one was taken down after the bankruptcy it was lost. I'll see what I can dig up. All I remember offhand is that the Metal Slug saga takes place from 2030~2040 or so and some basic info on the "Fab Four." I was under the impression that Terry and Kevin were both friends during Garou? I think the only connection to Mary is that Kevin is her "replacement" gameplay wise (we've got Dong Hwan for Joe, Jae Hoon for Kim, etc.). Though it is possible that the woman leading the manhunt in Freeman's ending is Mary herself, so it's possible they're just co-workers. Cheng and Tung are completely unrelated as far as I know. Also the last time Saishu appeared as a fightable character in a storyline relevant game he was a boss so I don't see how he could be considered an overall weaker character than Kyo. On top of this I think it's stated that Kyo actually got a lot of training from his mother Shizuka because Saishu was too busy going around the world competing in fighting tournaments. Plus he absolutely did have influence over the storyline. He's the reason Kyo is in KoF'94 and '95. Posted by Lantis on 04:20:2002 04:12 AM: Neo Rasa: Well, let's not forget how the relation between Kevin and Terry began...Kevin actually wanted to "bust" Terry because he mistaked him for Freeman (that means Kevin only had sketchy details of who the killer of his friend was). Of course, they did manage to sort out their differences after Terry found the "lost" Marky... Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:20:2002 05:23 AM: Here's something you all might want to think carefully about: Who thinks the SNK universe will be doomed when Orochi returns in the next 1000 years? It's not certain if there will still be King of Fighters tournaments running for the Kusanagi/Yagami/Yata descendents to gather again by that time, and the Yagamis probably wouldn't last very long due to their short life span. Iori doesn't seem intent on continuing the bloodline as far as I know. And to seal Orochi without the Yagamis would be damn near impossible, considering that Kyo and Chizuru wouldn't have done their tasks had it not been for Iori taking hold of him. Posted by TiamatRoar on 04:20:2002 05:59 AM: I'd be pretty surprised if the SNK universe didn't implode in on itself within the next 1000 years before Orochi could even come back. ...heck, I'd be kind of surprised if the REAL world didn't implode in on itself within the next 1000 years Posted by Siegfried on 04:20:2002 07:38 AM: Noooooooooooooooooooooo! I want my KoF 2097!!!!! Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:20:2002 07:47 AM: quote: Originally posted by Siegfried Noooooooooooooooooooooo! I want my KoF 2097!!!!! Um, don't you mean KOF 2997? Posted by Crayfish on 04:20:2002 04:24 PM: quote: Originally posted by Lantis Crayfish: There isn't ANYTHING that links Tung and Cheng. No ending has provided a relation between them (not even the more vague ones), and well, I think the only person Cheng could relate to closely to in the FF series is to Yamazaki (both are money-hungry criminals who work in the underworld, although Cheng doesn't like to do as dirty workas Yamazaki does. Cheng cheats here and there, mostly white-collar crimes. Yamazaki, on the other hand, wouldn't mind staining his hands with blood to get some moola! ) Could anyone please provide me with info about them individualy then? I'm very interested to anything you know about either of these characters, their histories, fighting styles, relations with other charas, notable fights etc, etc..anything. Thanks, Crayfish. Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:20:2002 05:08 PM: Crayfish: Tung Fu Rue given martial arts instruction to Geese Howard, Jeff Bogard, Terry Bogard, and Andy Bogard. As far as notable fights go I guess warm-up he offers you in FF1 qualifies, since that's the first storyline point where he "hulks out" during a fight. Note that all four of the characters listed above started out with Hakkyokuseiken as their style and then later on evolved it in their own way. Hakkyokuseiken's philosophies and techniques are most like Gojo-ryu or traditional pre-Aikido Aikijujitsu if you want a real life comparison. The four offshoots we see in the Fatal Fury/KoF games having some slight similarities to some of the main Aikido sects that exist today. Anyways, Geese Howard was always a ruthless, aggressive person, and when Tung began to see this he decided to teach Jeff Bogard the most powerful Hakkyokuseiken techniques instead of Geese and to give him a little more information about the Qin scrolls. This pissed Geese off so he murdered Jeff Bogard (this happens in 1982). Cheng Sinzan, from what I can tell, is a large man who enjoys eating food. He keeps himself rich via shady wagers in fighting tournaments. Ironically enough he arranges things so that he wins millions of dollars by losing fights. It's the ultimate in lazy fight throwing. Always entrapeneurial type though, he was trying to follow Ryuji Yamazaki during Fatal Fury 3: Road to the Final Victory to find out the location of the Qin scrolls (I also believe he informed Hon Fu of Ryuji's Southtown location... "You spoke to Cheng? No wonder I couldn't understand you!"). In the game he catches site of your character while fighting Hon Fu as the cargo platform lifts up above the docks and gives you a beautiful view of the skyline. He can be seen in the background trying to get your attention, pictures, etc. via a helicopter. Once Geese Tower catches on fire and Geese mocks you like a mofo and escapes it's Cheng who rescues you from the flames (again via helicopter) and gives you a lift to the Southtown Station to intercept Yamazaki before he escapes the city via train. Posted by Lantis on 04:21:2002 03:19 AM: I wouldn't worry so much about Iori's descendance...with his uncaring personality, he could practically have any woman he wanted and um...you know...have children? But then again, I don't conceive Iori having children scattered all over the world with shody women. This is where I point to Iori's new bio, that indicates that his "Favorite Thing" is his new girlfriend. Of course, there have been no pics of her, and Iori doesn't mention her at all in any of his endings, but that fact still remains...So I guess Iori could have children with her GF, and so on. Kyo has Yuki (no worries there). The one you should REALLY be worrying about is Chizuru. I don't see any sort of prospect for her, so who knows what will happen.... Ahh...but don't worry...I'm sure that SNK will "fix it" so that there WILL be Kusanagis/Yagamis/Chizurus in 1000 years... Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:21:2002 03:46 AM: Ah but Lantis think about it, if his new girlfriend is listed every year it means Iori has a new favorite girlfriend every year. Iori has his priorities straight though, that's why on one of his profiles he lists his highly rare Rickenbacker bass guitar BEFORE his girlfriend. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:21:2002 04:04 AM: Iori could get plenty of women, but knowing him, that's all just for pleasure. He doesn't seem interested in becoming a father, nor does he have what it takes to be one. If his girlfriend was of any importance to him, they'd have given her some involvement in the KOF storyline. It's a pity though, because if Iori DID have a child, he'd probably just abandon his girlfriend the same way Geese left Marie Heinlein. Thus he'd leave her to take care of his son/daughter, meaning a rough childhood, lack of training in the Yagami family arts, poor education, problems with drugs and alcohol; hell, the kid would be as good as dead basically. I still think the Yagami bloodline will end before Orochi returns either way. They pretty much fucked themselves over the instant they made the pact with Orochi. Posted by Geocide on 04:21:2002 12:54 PM: About Cheng. I read up once a long time ago that Tung taught him how to summon his chi and harbored him for a small amount of time while he was running from people (knowing his background, this could be true). But I am not 100% sure on this. ---- Is Foxy dead? I heard someone mention that K9999 killed her...however I didn't read about this in a description of the ending for the NESTs team... Posted by Siegfried on 04:21:2002 05:22 PM: In all KoF2K1 endings (except their own, I guess) you see Kula and Foxy watching the ascending airship. Then K9999 and Angel strike down (and possibly kill, SNK has killed Kula's friend Candy already) Foxy and taunt Kula. K' comes to the rescue and then it cuts to your regular team up in the space station. Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:21:2002 07:32 PM: quote: Originally posted by Grenade Falcon Iori could get plenty of women, but knowing him, that's all just for pleasure. He doesn't seem interested in becoming a father, nor does he have what it takes to be one. If his girlfriend was of any importance to him, they'd have given her some involvement in the KOF storyline. It's a pity though, because if Iori DID have a child, he'd probably just abandon his girlfriend the same way Geese left Marie Heinlein. Thus he'd leave her to take care of his son/daughter, meaning a rough childhood, lack of training in the Yagami family arts, poor education, problems with drugs and alcohol; hell, the kid would be as good as dead basically. I still think the Yagami bloodline will end before Orochi returns either way. They pretty much fucked themselves over the instant they made the pact with Orochi. Are you sure? Remember half the characters involved in the Orochi storyline had no formal training whatsoever. Iori himself spent most of his childhood being abused by his father until he struck out on his own. I didn't know "having a rough childhood" and not getting actual martial arts training meant one couldn't be a fighting game character, since those qualities make up at least a third of the overall roster, so I don't see how you can make a conclusion about the Yagami family dying out because of said qualities that you see in Iori. Also I was under the impression that the curse aspects of the extra Orochi-related powers vanished after KoF'97. Posted by Grenade Falcon on 04:21:2002 08:22 PM: quote: Originally posted by Neo Rasa Are you sure? Remember half the characters involved in the Orochi storyline had no formal training whatsoever. Iori himself spent most of his childhood being abused by his father until he struck out on his own. I didn't know "having a rough childhood" and not getting actual martial arts training meant one couldn't be a fighting game character, since those qualities make up at least a third of the overall roster, so I don't see how you can make a conclusion about the Yagami family dying out because of said qualities that you see in Iori. Also I was under the impression that the curse aspects of the extra Orochi-related powers vanished after KoF'97. In the God's Calibur Team ending in KOF '97, the spirit of Yasakani speaking to Kyo mentions the error that the Yagamis made, and that it can't be corrected. I'm assuming that this means the Yagamis will be cursed for as long as they live, unless Orochi was completely destroyed, thus ending the pact. What does it matter if Orochi has just been sealed? What indication is there that Iori will live a long life and not die at a young age as a result of it? And tell me, what characters in the Orochi storyline were not formerly trained? Do they just rely on instinct to fight? Posted by Neo Rasa on 04:21:2002 08:56 PM: I had assumed that the original Kusanagi's dialogue was simply stating that Orochi's side of the pact, that he will be revivable every hundred years or so cannot be undone. Orochi storyline-related characters who received no formal training: Chris Goenitz Iori Yagami Mature Ryuji Yamazaki Shermie Vice Yashiro Nakase There's a reason things like "Instinct," "Insanity," and "No style in particular, mostly _____ type attacks" are listed as their fighting styles in the profiles. Iori himself received a minimal amount of training if any officially. Posted by Crayfish on 04:23:2002 10:30 PM: Neo Rasa, thanks for the info regarding Tung & Cheng. I'm sure I had read about some conection between them, something like Cheng was a student but was disowned because of his materialism, but if you guys don't know then there cant be. Maybe I had just made assumptions based on their prefight conversations in FFS. Cheng says "Master Tan! Long time no fight. Come on gamps!". I know Cheng might simply be calling him master out of respect for him being the master of a system, but this does indicate they know each other and have fought before FFS. A couple of questions: Why do other characters refer to Tung Fu Rue as "Master Tan"? In FFS, strange things often happen in the bg, apparently Tung's floating resturant sometimes sinks! Have you ever seen this happen? I have reached the fourth round many times but never seen it. How powerfull do you think Cheng is in the Southtown underworld? Is he a boss in his own right or work for mr.Big? Where does Yamazaki fit in with this? Thanks, Crayfish. All the Cheng related stuff in FF3 sounds interesting, I'll have to try to get hold of that. All times are GMT. The time now is 12:43 AM. Show all 268 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.